So, the election is upon us and being the equal both-main-parties hater than I am, I shall share these two gems for y'all to discuss and offer enlightening thoughts about.
1. Roboromney.com
Go, try it. Change your stance and try it again...watch Mitt agree with you each and every time, complete with a video of him doing so, to prove it isn't fake.
2. It appears Obama wears a wedding ring with the words "There is no God but Allah" on it. Here's one site but Google it, there are tons of others showing the same stuff and more. The birthers are having a field day and the mainstream media isn't saying a word. Thoughts? http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/obamas-ring-there-is-no-god-but-allah/
What we need is a...
...against them both. ;-D
186 comments:
OMG, I cannot believe that carpet-kisser is even allowed in this country not to mention ruling our government. Until we figure out that pagans and non-believers don't understand how God's words can guide us in ruling our government beneficially (ROMNEY!!!!!!!!) I am afraid we are just on a course of destruction. Send Obama back to driving a cab where he ought to be and let Romney get our businesses, our schools, our healthcare, our morals back on track.
Oh, dear...lmao...
You don't have strong feelings or anything, do you? So, I'm assuming you don't think the Christian God and Muslim God are one and the same, then?
By the way, Romney? Morals? You're so cute. :-D
ROFL. That's a bit extreme, no? I am Republican, though, and wonder why the thing with Obama's ring hasn't made it to national news? Is it even true? I do think both sides (like every political race in the history of man I know) has a tendency to make some extreme statement on a topic, then wait for the response and then spin that to make the original topic so lost in big words that it's all but unrecognizable. Obama's campaign has certainly done that with regard to the issue surrounding birth control and the pill, spinning and spinning to make it look like Romney is all for banning the pill, when that has never been his stance.
Lisa: There is only one God and He isn't who the Muslims worship. The Bible makes that VERY, VERY clear, and has in fact predicted this type of stuff that is happening right now and the end for people who continue to try and push away from Him and embrace wrong things.
Anon 1:54: Since Islam hadn't developed until 600-odd years until after the death of Christ, it would be difficult for the Bible to recognize it in any way, dipshit.
Anon 2:01: The Bible makes it clear there is only one God worthy of worship so any gods, nonchristian religions, fat guys with big round stomachs,or carpet-kissers are automatically out of that. Dipshit.
Am I the only one who finds it so funny that a party founded on anti-slavery is now running against a black man? They're probably wishing they'd have thought that whole anti-slavery deal all the way through now, aren't they?
~BATB
It is all the same God. Research will tell you that. The son's of Abraham were the fathers of both. Same base and same background. Islam, Christianity/Catholicism, and Judaism are all the same stupid religion and people are willing to kill each other over very very subtle differences in opinion and make the others out to be the devil incarnate.
Personally I think all y'all should get the hell out of MY people's country honestly. Just because you could kill better doesnt mean you were more deserving to have the land!
I may also have to change my stance to religion AND politics are the root of all evil :)
As for the ring it could have been one of the few things that he got from his birth father. Just because a man is black and was named after his father does not automatically make him Satan. Mitt Romney is *gasp* a Mormon....you know that group founded by a false prophet that dared to make additions to the precious bible? Seriously??
1:52, I agree...both sides have attributed things to the other candidate that just aren't true. The wanting to ban birth control pills is one, yes, and also saying he took a $75,000 tax deduction on a horse is another. He took a $75,000 *loss on the horse. The deduction for that loss was like $50. On the flip side, you have the whole birther issue, the Muslim thing and complaints about what he's spent on vacations and all, like no Republican president has ever done the same. As for the ring, I have to admit it *looks to be true. It doesn't bother me in the least, though...it's probably a family heirloom.
"Lisa: There is only one God and He isn't who the Muslims worship. The Bible makes that VERY, VERY clear,"
If there's only one God, he *has to be the same one the Muslims worship. Alternately, there are at least two Gods. So, which is it?
It's always a good sign of fun conversation when people get called dipshits. :-D
BATB, you might be the only one...or, maybe Herman Cain would find it funny. Or perhaps Michelle Malkin, Condoleezza Rice, Alan Keyes, JC Watts...and if he was alive, you could ask MLK, Sr.
Heck, Mormonism is considered to be a cult by many conservative Christians.
"Just because you could kill better doesnt mean you were more deserving to have the land!"
Oh, I dunno, I think it might mean exactly that, not that I really like this idea. I mean, since the beginning of recorded time, this is how land has been gained...war. Think about it. How else are people supposed to gain land?
"Oh, I dunno, I think it might mean exactly that, not that I really like this idea. I mean, since the beginning of recorded time, this is how land has been gained...war. Think about it. How else are people supposed to gain land?"
seriously LOL at this one. How can I argue that :)
"seriously LOL at this one. How can I argue that :)"
You could have mentioned Manhattan. :-D
One God..many, many gods.
Yes exactly Anon 3:54. Those who are lost don't know that and are so desparately trying to make themselves feel better about their bad choices and wrongdoing by saying it's all the same god when it definately isn't. That's exactly how this country has ended up in the shape it is ....... people thinking THEY know what's best, not trusting GOD.
Well now since every group around the world has their own version of God and proof of their own version of God then who is right? What makes the God of the Christians and Jews better then the God of any other group?
I am sorry but religion really is all about cult followings. In the end we are all the same and in the end we will all be scattered to the winds.
Not to mention that many of the stories that are found in the bible are actually rehashed but still exact accounts of events from religions that had been around for thousands of years before the biblical events ever happened.
I always stop reading when the phrase "...only one God..." pops up, primarily when it's almost always accompanied by the statement (actual or implied), "...and that's MY God." Don't like religious freedom? I will personally buy you a ticket to any fundamentalist-religion controlled country you choose. One-way, of course. PS: I bet you won't get to vote there.
Sheesh.
Sonic
What Sonic said.
Plus. The woman in my head says the man in your head is wrong.
Knock, knock, McFly. What part of "One God ... many, many gods" did you not get? There is only one God whether people want to say they have proof of something else or not. The Bible is the proof. Little things called prophecies? Maybe you've heard of them? You won't be scattered to the winds you will be burning in hell for not heeding the Bible and God.
Do you really believe that? The bible that proclaims that there is only one god is its own proof? Really? So the Koran that says that Allah is the true god is then proof that Allah is god?
That makes no sense at all. I think you are just trying to spark a debate :)
Do I really believe it? Who am I to contradict GOD and the BIBLE and all the prophecies? Who am I to argue with the history of this world falling apart because men refuse to answer to their God?
::raising hand to ask a valid question:: How can the bible be the true word of God when it was written by men? Moses wrote the first four/five books (can't recall the exact number). In fact approximately 40 different men wrote the bible. So what if, just what if those 40 or so different men put their own spin on things?
Sandy that and the fact that what we call the bible was compiled by religious zealots whose ultimate goal was to convert and control the masses for their own power and gain.
So then we can reasonably say that the bible may not be the true word of God. Yes?
And what about the books that didn't make it into our modern day Bible?
Yes and the fact that one of them was possibly written by Mary Magdalene who may or may not have been Jesus' wife.
Oh and just for the record of keeping on the political topic, I might be writing in Prince for president. Can't stand either one running.
Well nothing like starting a new post to keep things on a light note lol. Thanks Lisa :)
One God, many gods, your way is wrong, my way is right, blah blah blah blah.
Listen folks...truth is, there IS only ONE right answer. Ultimately, the beginning of the world happened in one way or another. We can't all be right, as that's self-exclusive, meaning...if we can all be right, than the one who says nobody is right is right as well...and if the one who says nobody is right is right...well....
Head spinning yet?
Regardless...the point is...ultimately, there is one right answer. It would serve folks well to SEEK that truth, educate themselves on the issue and go from there.
After doing the same, I personally came to the conclusion that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, inspired by Him and breathed through man's hand. That He is more than capable of creating a "handbook" for His creation, despite what we may see as illogical roadblocks to so doing. If it's true what the Bible says about God...well, than He's mighty powerful, non?
It's been a number of years since I've studied the apologetics of the issue, and my memory has since faded as to much of what it was that convinced me, a skeptic, of the validity of the Bible.
However...might I make a suggestion of a piece to read? Anything from Josh McDowell is excellent. If I recall correctly, Josh was an antagonistic agnostic, setting out to uncover evidence that the Bible is flawed. But what he discovered changed him forever, as he came across evidence after evidence of the validity of the Bible.
His book, "A Ready Defense" in particular was a good read, and I use to keep a copy or two in the trunk of my car for when I'd have the opportunity to witness to somebody that was asking questions about my faith.
As to the political discussion at hand...way to lighten the mood, Lisa!
Both candidates are schmucks in the purest sense. I'm writing in Mickey Mouse on my ballot.
AWAGN
Mckmama didn't delete her instagram, she took it private.
There's only one God. Want proof? Read the Bible. Who wrote the Bible? God.
Sounds like a shady politician to me. Or a purveyor of snake oil. Or Josh McDowell.
AWAGN, if I'm reading you right, we should believe you because you came to a logical, educated conclusion. The details elude you, but you're sure! Ooooookay, then.
Sorry, my eyes can't roll back any further than they are already.
*hums chorus of the song "Trouble" from The Music Man*
Sonic
'It appears Obama wears a wedding ring with the words "There is no God but Allah" on it.'
What does Obama's wedding ring engraving have to do with being a good or bad president? Separation of church and state, y'all!
AWAGN, if I'm reading you right, we should believe you because you came to a logical, educated conclusion. The details elude you, but you're sure! Ooooookay, then.
Well, you didn't read me correctly at all. Come to your own conclusions, after doing your own research. But by george...do your research! So many people just shrug their shoulders and say, "Well, I believe what I believe" but they have no basis for what they believe. It sounds good to them. So they believe it.
Guess what? Truth doesn't always sound good. Truth isn't what we necessarily want it to be, or even need it to be. Truth just IS.
If my husband were to pass away today, it would be a terrible truth that I would hate. But it would be truth. No amount of my believing otherwise could change the TRUTH that he were dead. It would be ridiculous for me to walk around believing otherwise.
Yet...when it comes to these heavy issues such as, "How did it all begin" and "is there a God" most people just believe whatever strikes their fancy...if anything at all!
Do your research people!
AWAGN
AWAGN I wont argue with you except that for myself I did do my research and I came on the other side of the coin then you did :) I personally believe there is nothing wrong with faith and belief and everyone is different in how they go about that...hell even with "Christians" how many different kinds are there because they dont agree on everything LOL
I think that where the problem comes in is when people are absolutely intolerant that others dont believe the same way.
We really are saying the same thing but like I said different sides of the same coin...do your research, come to your own conclusion, even get information from places you dont necessarily want to read because they oppose what you want to believe.
...politics and religion ... ::shakes head::
Is this a family reunion?
AWAGN, I'm in Shannon's group -- I have read every religious text I could find, talked with people, listened to sermons, explored and examine, and came to a different conclusion. The biggest conclusion I came to was that there are many roads into the city, but they all arrive at the same place. Is there room in your "only one God!" manifesto for other beliefs?
LOL @ String -- sounds like it, eh?
Sonic
I can completely respect those that come to a different conclusion from my own, after doing their own research and reading.
Now...define "tolerance of other's opinions." Because if you're asking me to accept that your opinion is truth...I can't do that. Because if I accepted that your opinion is truth, than that would negate my opinion, which is that there is one God and only one God and that He is creator of all. If I believe that, than I can't believe that your beliefs are also true.
I can, however, respect your opinion and your right to your opinion. I believe it's wrong. But that doesn't take away from my ability to respect your opinion, and your right to have it. And to have respectful, honest and open discourse about those opinions and beliefs.
Tolerance of other's opinions to me means being respectful. None of this you are going to burn in hell because my way is the only way. Not calling names because others dont believe in the same 'truth' as you do. Not condemning everyone who doesnt share the same belief systems.
When I am called a "dipshit" because I just dont see anything wrong with someone being a "carpet kisser" or am told that if I dont believe the same that I need to get out of this country...then I will respond in kind.
It is kind of like the dispute with homosexuality.....how does it impact someone who is not a homosexual? If I dont believe the same way does that make me a bad person? Does it really impact your life if I dont believe the same way?
Like I said even in the christian faith there are so many different opinions as to what the 'truth' is. Even looking through history we can see how all over the world different beliefs get people killed.....because they find their 'truth' just a little differently then someone else does.
I am watching the Tudors again on Netflix and it is so surprising to me how such a small difference in belief....Christian and Catholic....caused Europe to be torn to shreds. It had so long been a war against the Moors and the Muslims and then suddenly it was a war among neighbors for tiny fundamental differences.
This is one of the best sermons I have seen. Lisa shared it on Daisy awhile back. I am reposting, not to be silly or a smart ass. Just sharing. Stick with it, it is worth it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLXW_Y0S4-c&feature=youtube_gdata_player
AWAGN - I am asking this because I am interested and try to take all discussions and views of people's religious or spiritual discussions seriously. In bearing witness, does one need to have a Bible? You had mentioned that you kept bibles in your trunk so that you could bear witness. In your view, if you did not have a bible, was the witness bearing not valid or not as valid?
I am not ready to condemn others for their religious or spiritual differences. I know so many good, kind, caring people that are Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Agnostic, Athiest, Mormon.
My belief is very strong in a compassionate God that sees the actual acts of a person towards their families, friends, neighbors, patients, strangers in need of clothing, shelter, food as Acts of Grace.
I am curious if you could provide some links to back up your assertion that the Bible was written by power-hungry zealots trying to take over control or whatever it was when the books that make up the Bible were all written by different people some of them living hundreds and hundreds of years apart and with completely different experiences? The Old Testament and New Testament have completely different meanings and served completely different roles and serve different roles today so please educate me on how that fits into your "religious zealots with a plot to take over the masses" theory. You know since you've done your research by george and all.
I don't think AWAGN said she kept Bibles in her car. I thought she said she kept Josh McDowell books in her car which is kind of whacked even from my standpoint. It's like the Jehovah Witness and their literature they use as a crutch to avoid doing there own research.
~BATB
When it comes to authorship of the Bible, of course men were involved. Christians would be the first to point this out. For example, Paul wrote letters to early churches that are included in the Scriptures (2 Peter 3:15–16). David wrote many of the Psalms. Moses wrote the Pentateuch, or the Torah (the first five books of the Bible). In fact, it is estimated that over 40 different human authors were involved.
(Source) McDowell, Josh, A Ready Defense, Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, TN, 1993, p. 27. Back
I always kept MY Bible with me. At all times. Sadly, that's gone by the wayside as the children have come along. My Bible is here, at the house, and comes to church with me...but I digress.
Yes, I kept a copy or two of Josh McDowell's book in my car...not because it was a Jehovah's type thing or anything...but because it was an excellent resource for when folks would ask me specific questions on things that they were genuinely curious about.
Remember, this was during my college days and open discourse was frequent. I wasn't shy about my faith, and usually, the presence of my Bible was enough to invoke discussion amongst some of my peers, strangers even. Particularly in the commuter lounge of the University. But again, I digress.
As to the question of whether one needs a Bible to have a valid witness....no. I don't think so. But not because your witness is invalid without the Bible, but because your witness is FROM the Bible. Then, when I had more scripture memorized, I didn't necessarily need a Bible on hand to be able to quote from. Handy, yes. Necessary, no. I remembered much of the important verses.
Now? Yeah...my witness would definitely be bolstered by my Bible...because I'm much more frazzled, with being a mommy of young children, busy and, quite frankly, overwhelmed by the demands of life. Remembering Scripture is quite a bit harder at this point in life. :-P
AWAGN
Yeah I've never understood why that's the first thing people start caterwauling about ..... the Bible was written by mmmmeeeennnn. Well, DUH.
Sandy, you really should quote more of that...
AWAGN
Anon 7:48...am I just reading ugly in your words or are you really being so ugly? Sometimes I hate that this kind of forum for discussion has no real ability to show inflection and such.
Go to Wikipedia for one if you would like to know some of where I get my information from.
Look at the differences between the books of the Jewish Torah, the Christian Bible, and the Catholic version of the Bible. Different books, different chronology, etc, etc.
Common sense tells you something as well I would hope. Exactly how did the stories of Adam and Eve get written down to be passed on? How much of Egypt's beliefs were incorporated after Moses led the Jews out?
"Pope Damasus I assembled the first list of books of the Bible at the Council of Rome in AD 382. He commissioned Saint Jerome to produce a reliable and consistent text by translating the original Greek and Hebrew texts into Latin. This translation became known as the Latin Vulgate Bible and in 1546 at the Council of Trent was declared by the Roman Catholic Church to be the only authentic and official Bible in the Latin Rite." From Wikipedia. Over 300 years after the death of Christ the Catholic church began the first official compliation of the modern day bible.
We have seen the state of the few original documents that have been found linking to the original stories that have made our current bible. Do you believe that the original authors actually wrote out their stories? How could that have lasted tens of thousands of years in a manner that could be whole and completely legible?
Forgot to add that the original stories were never broken down by verse or chapter.
I'm still confused then as to how this all plays into the "zealots aiming for control" deal. They broke the original verses down by verse and chapter because why? How did that figure into their devious scheme? What about the quote about the Catholic church compiling the bible some years after Christ's death? How is that devious? Were they devious for compiling it and trying to gain control? Or were the people who wrote those books hundreds of years before that the control-hungry zealots? What about the Gospels? What was the poing of several different men writing varying versions of the same bit of information? How does that play into the control deal? What does the differences between the Torah and the Bible have to do with anything? And when you say the "Christian" bible and the "Catholic bible" you are aware there are many many translations of the bible but they're all still ....... well the bible aren't you? What does that have to do with zealots and control? I wasn't being ugly it just sounded like you were doing no different than people who just repeat what they've been told and what they like to believe when it comes to saying there is only one God, the Bible is right. They get told there wrong because they didn't do there research yet it sounds like you're just repeating something you read somewhere once too but don't really have anything to back it up.
Thank you for answering my question to you AWAGN. I, too, do miss those days at the University, of long and serious discourse on philosophy, religion, spirituality, and the newly emerging Black Holes and Quantum Mechanics in the Student Union Building, dorm rooms and lounges. And yes, babies, children have a way of overwriting all that knowledge for a time.
And didnt they? Look at history. They used their 'truth' to justify the murder of millions on so many different continents. If the natives of that land didnt comply they killed them. Look at the Vatican..is it a city? Is it a country? It has a population of about 800 and has wealth in the tens of billions.
I dont know why you expect that I am going to put up everything that I have ever done to come to my belief in things. It didnt just happen yesterday. It wasnt just one or two places. A lot of it came from looking through the bible. Being in sever different churches. My own experiences. History. Mythology. I dont have to do your research as I am not trying to convert you to my beliefs.
KaytieJ...
Yes, I miss those days. I love what I do now, being a mommy and all. But trying to engage my children in spiritual discourse is about as effective as asking the dog what he thinks of the NIV's recent translation changes.
I often tell my husband that I intend to take a night class or something...lol. Then again, I suspect it wouldn't quite be the same.
AWAGN
Shannon - well said!
I have visited the Vatican and the museum there, the British Museum and the Royal Jewels in the Tower, the American Museum in Manhattan, the Chicago Musem.
While I enjoyed these visits for my own personal research and experience, I was left feeling appalled.
For example, if you want to see the Greece masterpieces and the spectacular jewels of India, etc - visit the British Museum and Tower. The Rosetta Stone was displayed front and center.
If you want to see the masterpieces of Rome and other parts of the world, go to the Vatican Museum. BTW, the Vatican marble that covers it, is from Nero's "castle" and the Colosseum, or so I was told.
I have not visited the Louve - so I have no say there.
The cold side of me quotes, "To the Victors" and "Possession is 9 tenths of the Law". The other half of me says, "what right do these governments have to keep and display these treasures?"
AWAGN - Be patient and have faith. I remember those days, too, but be strong, be patient, have faith. My teenage son recently told me one of (not the only one) of his favorite memories is a deep discussion we had when he was a preteen of ancient philosophers while we were eating pancakes at IHop.
Thanks Kaytie.
Honestly, I'm looking forward to the next couple of years, when my crew begins to hit their "old enough to have logical/rhetoric level discussions."
My oldest son is already a deep thinker and has asked some serious deep questions on God, heaven, Jesus, where it all fits in. Soon enough!
Then again, I have overheard my other children telling each other, "Give me that toy, or you're not going to go to heaven!" :facepalm:
AWAGN
Anyway. Back to Obama .... what kind of bullcrap is this Obama-phones deal anyway?
From the stuff I have read it is not true. There have been programs in effect for a long time in my area to help with getting a phone if you are low income. It is so that people can get help getting jobs and such. It is part of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. On your phone bill you see a charge that says something about USF...on my cell bill it is $1.72 per month...that is what pays for it. Obama has nothing to do with it LOL
Terrific...I leave and lots of good conversation ensues. Just my luck. And y'all are most welcome for the light little change of subject. ;-)
*If you believe that, then you must, logically, believe He goes by the name "Allah" in some parts of the world. :-)
"::raising hand to ask a valid question:: How can the bible be the true word of God when it was written by men?"
Sandy, I remember asking this of a pastor once and him telling me that God guided the hands of those men to write only His word, so "we" know for a fact that every word in the Bible is the word of God. I found that to be interesting...from a Christian perspective, I suppose it does make sense.
"Oh and just for the record of keeping on the political topic, I might be writing in Prince for president. Can't stand either one running."
Didja know that in most states you can't write anyone in? Pisses me off. but there are many more on the actual ballot than Obama and Romney. Maybe you can find on of them you like? Prince is just too...short.
"Regardless...the point is...ultimately, there is one right answer. It would serve folks well to SEEK that truth, educate themselves on the issue and go from there."
AWAGN, I get your point and it's a good one (many) all the way through, except for something you said up there. ^^ We do not and cannot know the truth while still alive. We can arrive at what we *believe is the truth but we cannot know it to be a fact, not a single one of us and not with any belief system. That being the case, I'd like to take the liberty of changing one sentence of yours ever so slightly: "It would serve folks well to SEEK their personal truth" and then I can agree with all of what you said, even though I don't share the same beliefs you do. :-)
"What does Obama's wedding ring engraving have to do with being a good or bad president?"
Not a thing...he's a piss-poor president and I'm sorry I voted for him. However, *why he wears that ruing could matter. Does he wear it because it's a family heirloom? Or does he wear it because, as some I've labeled "nutjobs" all long have been saying, he's actually Muslim? Now, personally, I have no issue at all with our president being Muslim. In fact, it would score him some extra points in my book, but...but...we need to know if we have a president who has lied about something that should be so honestly owned - his religion.
"If my husband were to pass away today, it would be a terrible truth that I would hate. But it would be truth. No amount of my believing otherwise could change the TRUTH that he were dead. It would be ridiculous for me to walk around believing otherwise."
AWAGN, there's a problem with this analogy to religion. It goes back to what I said about none of us knowing the absolute truth for sure. A better analogy using your husband would be if one day, your husband just disappeared. Gone. Vanished. You know in your heart he'd never, ever just leave you like that so he must be dead. That conclusion is absolute in your heart because even if he didn't want to be married to you anymore, he's the type to have done everything in proper order, telling you so, filing papers, etc. The fact he is just gone is the clincher for you that something bad happened to him, he's dead and that is your truth. I completely understand that and it's perfectly logical, actually. However, while it may be *your truth, it still may not be *the truth. The detectives may say they've seen hundreds of cases like this and in many, the husband simply cut and ran...midlife crisis or something and the wife had no clue at all. So, until either a body is found or until he's found living in Topeka or somewhere, we really don't know what the absolute truth is and Topeka is still a 50-50 possibility no matter how logical your conclusion is to you and even others.
I looked at the pictures offered as "evidence" of it being a "Muslim" ring (whatever that is), and I can't really say absolutely that I can see the Arabic lettering. Maybe it's just the quality of the photos included -- they're pretty blurry, too close-up to show much detail, etc. It looks rubbed or worn; it reminds me of my grandmother's ring, which my mom has now. The appearance of the gold indicates a lot of wear and age, making it even harder to see what's on there.
In other words: IMO this is a non-story, as is the "is he a Muslim?" question. The man has a long history of attendance at a Christian church. Most of us would never be questioned about our religion if we had that kind of attendance record. Interestingly, because I attended Christian churches for more than 30 years I've always been assumed to be Christian, without question -- which I am not. Weird how people seeing little things and think they're big things.
Sonic
Lisa, your point is well taken...but given your analogy, the point is, even if "my truth" is that he MUST be alive somewhere out there, I just know it in my heart of hearts...there IS an absolute truth that overrides my truth. Maybe he's dead, maybe he's taken off with some 20-something mooch.
It doesn't really matter what I believe about the situation...ultimately, there's a truth about it that can't be escaped. Perhaps I go through the rest of my life thinking that he's dead, must be dead, etc. Doesn't change a thing about what REALLY is true.
Kind of reminds me of the Natalie Holloway story...there's an absolute TRUTH about what happened to her. Her parents can believe what they want, but ultimately, it doesn't really matter...nor does it change the outcome for her.
Do any of us know for sure what happened to her? No. But we do have a pretty gosh darn good idea, kwim?
Same with Caylee Anthony.
Point is, it doesn't really matter what OUR personal truth is...absolute truth is absolute truth and it does exist.
You are correct, however, in that we can't really know 100% definitively if "our" beliefs on what is truth regarding God, et al is true or not. Unless, of course, He were to appear before our very eyes again, in which case, that would be some rocket good evidence.
Then again, if the story of the Bible is true, He HAS done that, several times in the past, now hasn't He? And it was the same thing....the people would see clear evidence of His existance, believe for awhile, behave for awhile, and then as generations passed, they'd fall away again.
AWAGN
"Honestly, I'm looking forward to the next couple of years, when my crew begins to hit their "old enough to have logical/rhetoric level discussions."
It'll happen, AWAGN, and it'll be worth the wait. My son and I have been known to stay up all night, talking and debating about God and religion, political issues, whether man was really on the moon or not, etc. When he was living in NC, we'd do it via text...ust be patient a bit longer. :-)
"Anyway. Back to Obama .... what kind of bullcrap is this Obama-phones deal anyway?"
Utter bullcrap, but it did all start before Obama took office, so we can't really blame him. The advertising for the program has stepped up under him, though.
"Point is, it doesn't really matter what OUR personal truth is...absolute truth is absolute truth and it does exist."
Exactly! I'm glad what I said makes sense...absolute truth does exist, even if we don't know what it is. And some of us may be right about what it is, but we just don't know which ones of us it is. :-)
"Then again, if the story of the Bible is true, He HAS done that, several times in the past, now hasn't He?"
*If it's true, yes, and *if that was really God. But now we've come full circle again, haven't we? What's personal truth and what's absolute truth?
Ahhhh, I love conversations like this. :-)
It's the story of the blind men and the elephant.
String, you just lost me.
I gotcha, String. Love that story. :)
Sonic
Basically, several blind men describe an elephant after each touching a different part of it, and proceed to argue their points of view.
A great theologian once said, "There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin" a timely quote at this time of year and a timely article for this discussion.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/07/proof-of-heaven-a-doctor-s-experience-with-the-afterlife.html
Beautiful story. I am glad he survived a terrible infection of the brain and be able to share his story.
Time for a song ... like it/hate it, take it/leave it ...
You say you want a revolution,
Well, you know
We all want to change the world.
You tell me that it's evolution,
Well, you know,
We all want to change the world.
But when you talk about destruction,
Don't you know that you can count me out.
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
All right, all right
You say you got a real solution,
Well, you know,
We'd all love to see the plan.
You ask me for a contribution,
Well, you know
We're doing what we can.
But when you want money
For people with minds that hate,
All I can tell is sister, you have to wait.
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
All right, all right
You say you'll change the constitution,
Well, you know,
We all want to change your head.
You tell me it's the institution,
Well, you know,
You better free you mind instead.
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao,
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow.
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
All right, all right
I think it is a very very appropriate song myself :)
Inspired by the "r'evol'ution" clip above, of course. But also appropriate to current politics in my state.
Love the song, String...very appropriate! Thanks for the story explanation, too. I've never heard that before, believe it or not!
Margo, that was an interesting story...a few observations, if no one minds? First, I think it's irresponsible of a magazine like Newsweek to have such a vivid caption stating :Heaven Is Real" on the front. But that aside, this paragraph immediately caught my eye:
"Although I considered myself a faithful Christian, I was so more in name than in actual belief. I didn’t begrudge those who wanted to believe that Jesus was more than simply a good man who had suffered at the hands of the world. I sympathized deeply with those who wanted to believe that there was a God somewhere out there who loved us unconditionally. In fact, I envied such people the security that those beliefs no doubt provided. But as a scientist, I simply knew better than to believe them myself."
He contradicts himself from the outside...no "faithful Christian" says the rest of what he says here. No one with any sense calls themselves a faithful Christian and then follows it by saying he doesn't believe in Jesus being more than a mere man or in a loving God. That's the kind of thing *I say about Jesus and I do believe in the God he describes yet I'm no Christian. The very fact I don't believe Jesus is the special, chosen son of God, nor do I believe he rose from the dead precludes me being a Christian. SO, my own logical conclusion is that this guy has conflict going on within himself from the outset. That said, I think people who have stepped away from the religion often suffer a situation similar to wanting to hedge their bets when death is close...call it guilt, call it fear, whatever. When faced with death, I think our subconscious minds can bring forth what we need to assuage that guilt or fear, in order to provide us a sense of safety. Same with very religious people...when faced with death like this guy, their minds can bring forth visions that comfort and reassure them. Now, I could be wrong, just like I could be wrong about religion. My truth isn't *the truth...but this guy's truth isn't necessarily *the truth, either.
I like discussing religion, politics and great pumpkins. :-)
Well said Lisa.
Interesting article, thanks for posting, Margo. Many people who've experienced near-death have spoken and written about what they "saw" -- details and their interpretations vary, but they all seem to have come out of it with a tremendous sense of peace and well-being.
I'm not a Christian, or a particular fan of any organized religion. Spirituality is a whole other thing, though. It seems the height of arrogance to assume that this little planet and our little lives are All There Is in a universe of unimagined immensity. In a similar way, it seems small-minded to assume that this life is all there is. There's plenty of information that at least seems to suggest that consciousness is a separate thing from physicality; logically, then, the question can be asked: what happens to that consciousness, not just after physical death but during moments like this man's experience?
One of my favorite moments in the film Contact is when Ellie is interacting with the alien consciousness, which appears to her as her father on the Florida beach. She asks why he came that way, and he replies something like: we thought you could accept this better. In other words, communicating in a language and form understandable by the recipient. This doctor saw a heaven-like place, winged angelic beings, heard a great voice, etc. -- all staples of his previous religious experience. Each of us would likely see our near-death experience differently. I guess my point is that our individual visions, which make a kind of sense to us, don't rule out the possibility that we're looking at the same thing. There is more that connects us than divides us (all appearances to the contrary).
Sonic
...which kinda negates the "one truth" theory, IMO, but fits the elephant story, I think.
Love the song String and yes! to it being relevant to the discussion.
"But as far as I know, no one before me has ever traveled to this dimension (a) while their cortex was completely shut down, and (b) while their body was under minute medical observation, as mine was for the full seven days of my coma"
He had me until this line. Big eye roll. So very typical of an Academia Neurosurgeon.
Ummmm....he fails to take in mentioning that he was probably on a fentanyl and versed drip or maybe just some propofol to do those hourly neuro checks. Oh...and the razor cheekbones babe and bright shiney light? Hourly neuro pupil checks with a pen light by a nurse hunched over worried about what his "window to the brain" pupil reaction would be this time around.
It fits the elephant story for me. I enjoy hearing about how and why people believe what they do.
I published before I finished... I saw on bwop where Barb wrote something about walking away. I wonder if she means from bwop or JM. I would really like to know from her if she see's JM's actions as *normal. We all make mistakes but to continue to make them over and over again?
Back to politics...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwilbVYvUg&feature=player_embedded
Yes, String, fits the elephant story. And yes, Margo, he related his near-death experience to his life experience. Doesn't automatically make it untrue; just in his language. I personally might have seen George Clooney in his nicest Armani suit. ;) Actually, with my luck I'd probably see George Burns. *sigh*
Re Barb: I'm just guessing she's walking away from bwop. They've been beating her up a bit and she doesn't handle that well. I will fall over in a dead faint if she ever admits out loud that she's changed her mind about JM.
Sonic
I forget. Is this a bullying-Religion hate site or a Mckmama-bully hate site? or both?
I leave it to the longtime posters to answer that profound and incisive question.
:D
Sonic
Don't remember seeing this in the conversation about Rhys and her family -- an update was posted yesterday with a few more details about what happened and how things stand now.
http://growingmccrorys.blogspot.com/
This is a place you can talk about stuff...It isnt MWOP that only talks about JM or BWOP that only talks about bullies and bullies them back.
It certainly isnt an anti religion site. I saw it as that there was a mostly civilized discussion about religion. I'm not real sure why you would think it was an anti religion site though. Just because everyone isnt all praise jesus and such doesnt mean that we are bullying religion or hating on it.
What bullying? All I see is people each saying what they think. The whole world is never going to agree about religion, so I wouldn't expect that here. Not that I'm anybody; just a stringofrandomletters :-)
ACtually, I found most of the discussion on religion to be quite respectful! With the exception of a handful of comments at the beginning of the topic.
AWAGN
*crickets*
Hope everybody's weekend was pleasant and peaceful.
Mine was good, Sonic...quiet but nice. Am dealing with a dead washer and a dead laptop, both of which put a little dampert on things but compared to other problems in the world, these are nothing. Hope yours was good, too!
AWAGN, for whatever reason, we've nearly always managed to keep discussions about touchy topics pretty respectful around here. It's nice. Anyone who ever really read it would know it's certainly not an anti-religion site at all...possibly just the opposite. And bullying around here. Um, maybe a tad, from time to time and if you're the ultra-sensitive sort but hey, there's nothing wrong with a little bullying. Sometimes it's deserved. :-D
I bet String is missing our Sunday trips to church, though.
Sonic, I'd not seen that update on the McCrory's site, thank you for sharing it. I have something to share, as well. I am still bothered by this whole thing and think I've made it clear I'm not so comfortable with the idea of nothing wrong having happened anymore. That said, I'm also not comfortable with the alternative and so, once again, I started Googling and reading. In doing so, I found this link: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Persecuted-parents-or-protected-children-1092970.php Now, I have no clue if this doctor was involved in Rhys' situation but I do know he's at the hospital they were at and, in a complicated case like Lia's, I would think he probably was involved. We have to be fair about all of this and realize this could very well mean Rhys is innocent of any wrong-doing and really is the "victim" of what may be an over-exuberant doctor.
"dead washer"
Um, no. It's a dead dryer. God, I hope I didn't just jinx myself.
Sorry about the apparent appliance rebellion, Lisa. ;)
IMO confrontation and disagreement does not equal bullying. Someone who says, y'all are gonna burn! has to accept there's gonna be a little pushback in kind. IMO.
Fascinating article. I've always viewed career experts (used for court/legal cases like this) with a lot of skepticism. They're essentially making their living reporting, testifying, being paid for articles and books, etc. Makes a powerful incentive to report/testify/write more. This Feldman person, for example, has identified MSBP at a hugely higher rate than the medical profession has. That alone should be a red flag. Maybe a system of rotating experts, and a ban on paying high fees for testimony, would reduce the number of false accusations.
That said, when a child suddenly improves, goes home and then gets sicker again, it's a sign of some kind of problem at home. It may be nothing more significant that a toxic substance in the home that the child has a reaction to, or caregivers that aren't well trained to care for the child. It's not necessarily a reason to take a child away or restrict a parent's access, but it's certainly cause for further examination. In this case, if the very vaguely worded update is accurate, she was on some kind of machine at home that "slipped out of place". I don't know what that means, or if it's feasible, or if it's the whole story. It may only mean that the family needs home health care assistance until they learn better how to care for Lia.
As the medical director of Children's said: "It's a lot harder to look a relative in the face and have to say I'm sorry we didn't report (suspected abuse) when we had the chance and now a child is dead." My family's had personal experience with Children's in Seattle, and they're terrific. Their small patients are their absolute FIRST priority, no matter what. We still don't know all the pertinent facts about this case; I'm finding the flowery, emotional postings of friends and family to be moving, but not very helpful. We do have to be fair, which to me means that all answers are still possible, everything from "they're being persecuted" to MSBP.
Sonic, I agree completely with your assessment of medical experts and about being fair all around. We have to base our opinions on what we read and piece together since, for whatever reason, more real information hasn't been forthcoming. You'll note I didn't say that link alleviated all my concerns; it did not and for the very reasons you mention, such as the fact she seemed to get worse each time she was at home. There's something wrong there, although, as you said, too, it could have been environmental or anything. I will openly say that as a parent, if I had a child in Lia's chronic and critical medical condition, I would not have had pets in the house (esp. a massive, hairy dog), nor would I have allowed her to play in dirty puddles, even though I completely understood the desire to let her be a kid and do kid things when she felt able. Perhaps, though, the doctors had okayed those things. I do remember, because she told it on CaringBridge, the piece that came loose was the g-tube thing that went into Lia. I understand it's not completely rare for that to happen so I really didn't give that much weight. Anyway, I'm all long-winded here with no real point but that I found some info in her favor and wanted to share it, as it could possibly be what has happened here.
Thanks for that info about the g-tube, Lisa. Dunno what that is, but it sounds like something that could feasibly have happened without malice aforethought. Maybe preventing that kind of occurence is something the family needs help learning how to do; if so, I'm hoping the investigation is geared toward figuring out the real problem and finding solutions, instead of this Feldman's witch-huntish allegations. And (on the other side of the coin) the real problem may be her mother. I'm thinking we may never know all the details... My prayer is for best outcome for ALL concerned, Lia most of all. Went back and looked at the picture of her striding along like sixty, not a care in the world. :)
"Feldman's witch-huntish allegations"...this is the same impression I got about this guy, as well. That's why this article impacted me and my feelings about what the truth could be. I'll say, too, that sometimes people are simply to sick to be outside the strict and regulated confines of a hospital unless they've been brought home to die and as such, it's possible that just being outside the regimentation and constant monitoring and readjusting of a hospital setting, a patient could backslide easily even in the best home environment. As you said, we may never know. Like I said, I just thought it was right to share something that definitely speaks to the validity of the story we've heard. And yes, Lia getting better is the most important part!
"Lia getting better is the most important part!" - indeed. I hope for everyone's sake it's a misunderstanding.
"Lia getting better is the most important part!" Absolutely.
Thank you for posting that Feldman piece, Lisa.
Ditto the above thoughts regarding little Lia, of course.
As to the article, in my experience there seem to be people in many fields of work whose power goes to their heads. As best I can tell, they truly believe that they are right, even when others can clearly see that they've gone overboard.
String, what you're saying about experts (AWAGN, too) reminds me of the defense's expert medical examiner in the Casey Anthony trial who considered himself to be so impervious to fault that he made a complete ass of himself. Remember him? Crap...had to Google...Werner Spitz.
You're welcome, Kaytie.
So, has anyone been keeping up with this story (or actually, I guess, 3 stories)? The mainstream media is staying out of it...shocker. I'm so disgusted by it, sentencing them to federal prison with no charges against them, not even accusations. That's not supposed to happen in this country. :-( http://rt.com/usa/news/refusing-grand-jury-plante-196/
Well, that's pretty scary shit. Too bad the media chooses not to report this stuff; one might almost think they were in cahoots with the authorities...
Lisa, I must admit, that article you posted regarding Feldman really puts Rhys' situation in a whole different light. Totally puts a different spin on things.
I think it's completely wrong for a physician like Feldman to be able to do what he's done to a number of families and not have any kind of repercussions. And, given the options here, I hope that this is indeed a situation where Feldman has wrongly accused another family, as opposed to the alternative, that being Rhys hurting her child.
That said...if the G-tube is what was knocked out of place...the G-tube being what is used for nutrition, it could play further into a classic MPS situation where a parent "accidentally" misuses a piece of medical equipment, preventing their child from getting what they need and thus, getting better.
Fact remains...we still don't know anywhere near enough to be able to come to any kind of logical conclusion in their case. I hope it all works out for them.
AWAGN
"I think it's completely wrong for a physician like Feldman to be able to do what he's done to a number of families and not have any kind of repercussions."
I want to agree so badly, AWAGN, but there's a part of me that can't completely. If we do that, we risk reporters such as this doctor holding back, not reporting for fear of being wrong (and facing punishment) in cases where he may never be able to be sure, and in the process of holding back, some kids could be hurt further...or killed. Do we sacrifice those kids to keep innocent families safe from people like him? At the same time, you're right that it's very unfair for one man to have the power to truly destroy the lives of innocent people who only tried to get medical help for their sick kids, just because he's all gung-ho. Those people should have recourse against him. But how can both things be accomplished? Perhaps requiring multiple professionals to approve the reporting?
"That said...if the G-tube is what was knocked out of place...the G-tube being what is used for nutrition, it could play further into a classic MPS situation where a parent "accidentally" misuses a piece of medical equipment, preventing their child from getting what they need and thus, getting better."
Sure, but in reading more, it appears these things fall out pretty commonly; it's not rare. I also found tons of instructions online for people to put them back in themselves, so apparently that's not rare, either. And, if memory serves, she'd only had that for less than a year, I believe.
"Fact remains...we still don't know anywhere near enough to be able to come to any kind of logical conclusion in their case. I hope it all works out for them."
Exactly, we don't and the best we can do here is to try to be fair all around. I still hope so much that their family can safely be put back together again, and soon.
^^caution - someone who is more computer savy than I am please check this out.
I went to the link, entered my email and then got a message "if you want to improve your chances of winning....". Please everyone - wait until someone can check this out before you end up with your email being spammed big time.
G-tube...extremely familiar with them since I was lunch lady when my dad was sick. Things do happen with them. It's pretty much a 12 in or so tube that is outside of the body. The rest goes directly into the stomach. It's pretty much held in place by a "balloon" on the inside of the abdominal wall. I could see where a small child could actually dislodge something just by being. It happened to my dad.
Sandy, is it obvious when it's dislodged? Because if it's pretty common for it to become dislodged, why would anybody claim MBS over it? Perhaps there's more to that part of the story?
AWAGN
It was obvious with my dad. The balloon part deflated and it was "moving". My experience is based on an adult...(I miss him muchly). The question would also be is the same type of tube used on a child. My guess would be yes.
From what I remember reading on Lia's CB, the reason they went back to the hospital (after they went out in the kayak) was that Lia's 02 sats were low. I hope that the teamlia picture is not new and she's back on oxygen :(
As far as I know the teamlia site was not set up by rhys or her team.
Heavens, a bogus site about a little girl - arg!
So everyone knows, I'm changing names and am going to delete the Lia link comment. From what I'm hearing (didn't put an email address in personally), it qualifies as spam or a close cousin thereof. Hope no one minds it being gone. Also, I'll do a spam check. ;-)
All I would like out of this is to know how sweet Lia is doing NOW.
Is that too much to ask?
Okay, that's better. It's no big deal if people want to post legitimate fund-raising or informational sites here for specific people, but that one way way too fishy.
Margo, I've seen that picture of Lia before, I think on CB...I believe it is not a recent picture.
"(I miss him muchly)"
I'm so sorry, Sandy. How are you all holding up?
Thanks for being so cautious, Lisa. :)
I have also seen that pic of Lia sometime back. It's not a picture of her now. I did ask on the roots-and-branches post (one of them) about Lia, and got a very carefully worded response: that specifics couldn't be made public but there was "no reason to quit rejoicing." There was also a later sentence that she's still doing well and still eating.
I'm so sorry for your loss, Sandy. :(
Sonic, I'm not the paranoid type, but I'm not fan of emails being harvested...or worse. It's best people just aren't tempted to go there.
I, too, don't understand why we don't have more info on Lia. No one is asking for her damn medical records or copies of legal documents that might specify private things...what possible harm is there in a few pictures every so often so those who came to care so much for her can see how good she continues to look and hear what new things she's accomplished that never seemed possible before? Ah, well, apparently that isn't going to happen so we best just hope that no news is good news and move on or something.
I asked about the Team Lia link because one of the Bloggers mentioned in the Growing McCory's blog linked to it directly on his post, so one would assume it was official. Sorry.
Wait, so it's real? Well, when we find that out for sure and when something actually happens so we know for a fact it's not an email harvester or virus, someone can post it back if they wish.
This guy links to it here: http://tyounglightsys.dyndns.org/wordpress/?p=182
He is a friend of Rhys.
We're hanging in there, Lisa. Thanks for asking. It's that big unfillable void that hurts the most :(
((((SANDY))))
Sandy, that void never really goes away, but I promise you that you will adjust to it, in time, and it won't hurt as much. Every holiday, every event, every year, it gets a little easier but the first ones suck harder than you expect, so don't let that catch you too off-guard. {{{Sandy}}}
So, we've got a guy who is a friend of Rhys' vouching for that site and yet Rhys and her team don't know about it? Or they're just saying they didn't set it up, but they know about it? And one of his links shows a site with a donation amount waaaay below what has actually been donated. Whatever the deal is here, this is exactly the kind of stuff that makes me so uncomfortable about it all...so many people asking for money and no one seeming to be on the same page with much of anything. :-/
:(, Sandy.
Lisa - I think that's what threw me the other day with Rhys writing her mother didn't know things. I really don't feel like just because I gave money I should be privy to information - but at the same time I read about Lia when she was ill and kept her in my prayers so it would be nice to know how she's doing now.
Needing a place to vent. I gave a relative my email as we had a small family reunion after my dad died. I get no less than 10 emails a day from her. They range from Jesus Loves You to Ombama is the Devil. GAH!
Carry on.
*Obama
Lisa - re: teamlia.com - I just entered a fake email and here is what comes up after you submit (c&p) - I'm def. guessing not legit.
TEAM LIA WELCOME!
THANKS! WANT TO IMPROVE YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING?
Invite friends using the link below. The more friends you invite, the better your chances!
TaraJ
That's just...weird. Winning what?? I would bet the rent the site host is harvesting emails like crazy. I hate that stuff.
Sandy (((())))
Ugh to all the e-mails. Going through that here as well. Best one yet was that Texas was leaving the Union and due to all the great things in Texas, the rest of the US would be screwed. Alrighty then.
It is not unheard of for GTubes, nasal feeding tubes and PICC lines to become dislodged or clogged.
Thanks for that information TaraJ. Definitely will not be going there, then.
"Lisa - re: teamlia.com - I just entered a fake email and here is what comes up after you submit (c&p) - I'm def. guessing not legit."
Jeeeez. So Rhys' friend posted it and is encouraging people to go and didn't even do it himself? Or, is something nefarious afoot? This is the kind of thing I mean with no one being on the same page. It's odd.
" I get no less than 10 emails a day from her. They range from Jesus Loves You to Ombama is the Devil. GAH!"
Ugh...why must people do this?
Sandy - too bad about that relative, and I would *have to say something (nicely, of course) back. Or just mark her email address as spam :D
Re: TeamLia - good idea TaraJ on the fake email test. Now I know I will not visit that site!
Boy, it got quiet.
Shhhhhhhh......
We could go through their purses while they're off doing God knows what, Trudy.
Wooo..stay out of Sandy's. =)
Trudy, I would like my gum back please.
My purse is missing ... three pieces of candy, and my iphone5 :-0 (that I never had)
Hrrrmmph. Do you carry insurance on this place, Lisa?
Insurance? Me? Puh-lease.
*hands String her purse back*
I found caramels...picked the dust off them and they were fine. And maybe JM can give you a new phone you never had.
Speaking of JM, I was just reading MWOP and am coming to the conclusion a lot of people would consider me a really bad mom. For one, I let my kid get on the roof, just as my folks let me. It's fun up there, you feel like king of the world and it's a little scary but in a fun way. If a parent is right there on the ladder at the eaves, it's safe enough to let them even stand, in my book. You can catch 'em if they tumble. Now, granted, I *might rethink this on an A frame house, lol. And furthermore, I don't see the big deal with missing a kid's birthday as long as you let them know ahead of time you'll make it up when you're home so they know you didn't forget, call them that day, etc. Most kids wind up getting two birthdays out of this and they know it...one with whoever is watching them and then another with their parent(s) when they return. Now, granted, I'm not so understanding of planning a mom and dad only vacation on the kid's birthday but required or not, these Xyng things are part of her job and I'm just not seeing the huge deal here. And while I'm at it, as long as you aren't going fast and are not distracted with texting or anything (which I know is debatable in her case), I also don't see the big deal with letting a kid stand up through a sunroof on a country lane. Am I the only one who did/does stuff like this? Surely not.
You are not alone. Not so much with the roof here seeing that we are two stories. B was just up on the shed roof when AH and his buddy were redoing some shingles on it. Did it make me a little nervous, yes. But, there were two adults with him. I also agree with you about the birthdays. I think the problem with JM though is that she missed *a lot of them. Not just a few here and there.
Well, yeah, maybe not on the second story, that's true...but gosh, I'm glad another mom I think is a good and caring mom would do this stuff, too. Sure, it makes you nervous but Lord, I was always more nervous with him in the shower, afraid he'd fall and bust his head open. Actually, I still sort of am. ;-)
As for the birthdays, ehhh. She's dealt with over 20 birthdays with her kids and missed what? Like 5 on the actual day? And on some of those, the kids were so young they didn't even know it was their birthday, no doubt, and have no clue it was celebrated 2 weeks later or whatever. The big deal over her missing Lachlan's actual first birthday, for example...he had no clue, it didn't hurt his feelings. To me, this is more of the nit-picky stuff that makes some people take MWOP less seriously.
When we were kids we jumped into the snow from our second story bedroom. It was great and our folks let us. On our house now it wouldn't be safe. So I think it's situational. Or institutional, inquisitional, or transitional, as spell-check is suggesting :-D
Same on the b-days - it depends on how you set it up with the kids. If you're going to be gone, you say, "...and the Saturday after Mommy comes back, we'll celebrate your birthday!!" Simple enough. Now would I want to miss? Nope. But stuff happens.
I hope those "caramels" were good. I think they're laxative :-P Sorry 'bout the dust :-))
I will get in the line of horrible mothers. I even let my kids go outside when it was raining without coats or even shoes. I let them play in the dirt. I let them throw rocks. I let them have sword fights with sticks.
I think the idea of jumping on a trampoline with the sprinkler on underneath sounds like great fun!
And we use to sled off the roof of a building I once worked in. It was low enough in some spots to climb right up (weird shaped building, kind of built into a hill) and high enough in other spots to make sledding off quite fun!
--AWAGN
I agree AWAGN...it would be amazing on a hot hot day to have the water splashing up on you.
Note to self:
1. Trampoline in back yard: check.
2. Sprinkler in position: check.
3. Warm weather: ???
*waiting*
Lol...a bunch of piss-poor mothers in this place, I tell you. My mom's neighbors had a bunch of kids, with an above ground pool and a trampoline in their backyard. And a roof. Y'all can imagine what happened with that combination. :-D I cringed the first time I let Jake go do it, too...off the roof, hit the trampoline and into the pool. Then I realized I wished I could do it, too! Besides, the only broken bone he ever had was from jumping off a bed at home and landing on a Megazord, lol.
I will say that sword fights with sticks always scared me some...he's got a big scar on his chin from sword fighting with the branch ends of palm fronds and one didn't just cut him, it took a chunk of flesh out of his chin. That could have been an eye. But hey, it's just all part of life and helicoptering the hell out of your kids and not letting them have that thrill of doing something "scary" hurts them too, imo.
Sonic, it'll be in the 80's here today...bring your toys and come on over. ;-)
Yep going to Lisa's for the trampoline/sprinkler fun :) We are going to try to get over 50 today LOL certainly NOT water weather.
Lisa I probably was a pretty non helicopter parent. I mean I didnt let them do things that were super dangerous but I did let them do things even when I knew someone could get hurt...I would tell them that someone probably would get hurt but also know that kids wont learn that something hurts unless they experience it. We can keep them safe from death but falling and getting hurt happens. And somehow my kids made it through with no broken bones or serious injury. Chris has been in the hospital twice...once because his appendix ruptured and once because he didnt listen to me that the homemade electric scooter was a bad idea and when he got the 4-5 inch gash in his ankle when he did it anyway after all the adults left he figured it out.
On our list of things we're getting for the backyard next summer.. in order 1- finish the fencing so the yard is completely fence. 2- Above ground pool and 3- a trampoline
and we can't wait. Kids are excited too LOL
*packing rubber ducky, water wings and SuperSquirt* I'm ready!!
Okay, we can play at my house until next summer, but then we're all going to Mama P's! She'll have a roof, a pool and a trampoline...I'll bring the liquor. Where's Sandy and her snack cart?
Shannon, count yourself lucky. Mine's only two hospitalizations have involved alcohol and drugs. The alcohol one was completely his fault, the drugging one? Not so much, since someone drugged his drink, but he was stupid as hell to leave a drink unattended in a bar and to be in a bar with a drink at 18. Both qualify him as a dumbass but I don't think letting him just off roofs caused it. God, I hope not.
just=jump
Eh, if you don't let your kids do stupid things they can't learn *not* to do stupid things.
That's a perfect assessment of it, Jill. I'm glad for the ones my folks let me do...I either learned lessons I've never forgotten or I had a wonderful time I still remember. :-)
Yes, we take the approach of, "If you do this, you *might* get hurt. But by all means, if you're willing to take that risk, then hop to it!"
And quite often, somebody DOES get hurt and I have to bite back the, "I told you so." Because I do want them to take risks. Just not really stupid risks. It's a hard balance.
Then you hear stories like this one: http://www.nytimes(DOT)com/2012/10/24/nyregion/2-boys-charged-in-killing-of-autumn-pasquale.html?_r=1&
And all I want to do is lock my kids indoors forever and ever.
--AWAGN
I heard someone say that we used to teach our kids to be safe in the world, but now we try to make the world safe for our kids. Which can never happen, ya know?
Snack cart is packed and ready to go!
String that is soooo true.
Sandy I heard you turned into a Hurricane :)
Yes I did...that's how I roll.
Well, in that case, Sandy, thank you for just belting a gush of water in my open office window. I suspect my printer and a cat will never be quite the same again. :-P~
"I heard someone say that we used to teach our kids to be safe in the world, but now we try to make the world safe for our kids. Which can never happen, ya know?"
That's about the size of it, isn't it? We do a disservice, I think, to our kids to cushion them. They need to know the world is a harsh, usually unfair place and they while they are special to *us, they aren't special within the world as far as the world accommodating them. They're just another person.
"Well, in that case, Sandy, thank you for just belting a gush of water in my open office window. I suspect my printer and a cat will never be quite the same again."
Sorry :)
Yeah, I see you feel soooo bad about it, lol.
To all the east-coasters, stay safe this weekend. This thing looks really bad as it moves north.
For any west-coasters who might be reading and haven't heard the news, here: http://google.org/publicalerts/alert?aid=e03a6e895721fff1&source=tw
Tsunami alert. It sounds bad...
It's been cancelled this morning. Apparently the warning in Hawaii has been downgraded as well. There were a couple of small saves reported but by the time they got to Hawaii they weren't much. Scary for everybody.
Small waves, that is... :/
Yeah, thankfully that turned out to be a sort of non-event. And lol @ "small saves"...I'd say it was a big save.
Okay, back to worrying about everyone in Sandy.
Any Lia updates?
I haven't heard any updates, no. Hopefully things are going well for them all.
You would not believe how much my car has depreciated in 2 years. I am pissed, and then just when I got over it for a minute, I got repissed.
First world problems.
Julia
Mine too, Julia. But mine is 12 years old :-)) and starting to cost me a lot of $$$$.
Mine too, Julia. But mine is 12 years old :-)) and starting to cost me a lot of $$$$.
echo
echo
I'd say "echo" again, but then it would cancel out the redundancy. Or add to it. I'm not sure.
Julia has me curious about my car, though, I know that and I'm also sort of scared to look.
What have I missed?
Okay, I'm not upset...whew! I have a '03 Hyundai Elantra (whaaaa? I'm a cheap-ass) that I paid $12,300 for in '02. Private party price is now $3877. I wish it was more, of course, but how can I complain about a car that has depreciated less than $1000 each year I've owned it? And now I'm doubly curious about Julia's car.
Hey, Robin! You've not missed much, it seems. You and yours doing good?
Is everyone ready to vote?
Sure! Though I'm not looking forward to standing in line forever and a day.. my mil went to vote early on Saturday and waited in line for 2 hours...
oh and HI
Hi, Mama P! I'm hearing horror stories about line, too, but am hoping it's because it was early voting and they only set a few stations up for it. We shall see, but I'm not leaving until I've voted!
That's really important: DON'T LEAVE!! No matter how long the line is, no matter how awful the weather is, no matter what the election people say, Stay. In. Line. If you're in line at closing time they are required by law to stay open until you've voted. There was a polling place in (I think) Florida, where there already have been so many vote-repression shenanigans, and therefore huge lines, and the polling place was forced to stay open (and the workers on the job) until 1 am. At another precinct in FL voters forced the election officials (who had closed the precinct at the direction of the mayor, WTF??), to reopen by pounding on the door and chanting LET US VOTE, LET US VOTE!! until they reopened. Don't let anybody take this right away from you!!
There's no early voting here. Why do some states have it? Why are the lines so long if they are voting early?
We have long lines too, but it's all on election day.
I wondered about that early voting/long lines thing. Maybe everybody thinks, wow, let's go early! and the lines tomorrow will be very short. :D
Me, I vote by mail. Much easier. :)
Lisa:
I have a 2010 Mercedes c300 AWD. Paid 46 something, and now it bluebooks at 26 something. 20,000 in depreciation in 2 years????
Julia
Honda. That's all I'm sayin.
Nah. Audi.
Dodge.
This Hyundai was my last venture outside of the Chrysler world. It's fine, but it's not a Dodge.
Julia, you're certain you got those numbers right, because that's an outrageous amount to depreciate in 2 years!
Hey, Kate.
MIL's old Pontiac minivan $500.00. Driver side window broke, needs an alignment big time but by God it's mine and I don't have a car payment.
Happy Voting.
No car payment = good car in my book. :-)
Well, regardless of whatever else happen, it looks like Gary Johnson has made history and will break 5%, meaning next election the Libertarians are a step closer to being treated as equals. For that, I am glad.
Yes!! We so need a viable electoral system; this one ain't it.
*** new post up ***
Sonic, agreed. we can rant about it over on the post. :-)
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