Sunday, January 29, 2012

Pastor Steve makes an interesting point here...

...so think twice before voting for Mitt Romney. 
*twitch*



Can we all go to the Golden Corral after church?

157 comments:

Lisa said...

From the last post, Mama P, I won't fault anyone for removing their kids from a kid they feel is rough or unpredictable, regardless of why the kid acts that way but there's no point in that guy making any kind of production about it. Just politely move away and call it done. But the freebie thing *kills me...a lot of people seem to have that attitude, though, both in situations like you describe and in government programs. It's that whole entitlement attitude so many have these days...

So, did you get all the bed bugs, do you think? I thought about y'all last night and wondered.

Jill said...

I don't know what is worse, that they guy is working the system or that he's bragging about it.

D Miller31108 said...

Pastor Steve is kinda cute...jk!

Lisa said...

*slaps D*
Sometimes he reminds me of Jack on Lost, looks-wise.

Jill, I think the bragging part is what pisses me off most...it shows he knows it's wrong, you know?

Anything exciting happening out there in blog-land today?

Anonymous said...

@Lisa, I should have said before I'm totally fine with parents removing them from M, I'm sort of a helicopter when it comes to him, I watch him very closely and if I see him reaching that melt down point or being to rough I remove him myself. What my issue was and is, this parent doesn't do it discretely he makes a HUGE production out of it, huffing and puffing and making his kids cry. One time he actually dragged his 2 year old out of the room screaming just to get away from us, we had just walked him. He's actually the first parent we've ever had to that so it was a new experience for us. I guess that's because I try to keep M from others if I know he's not having a good day.

The dad in question is awful imo, I just don't understand abusing the system like that. There are so so so many people that really need help and he brags like its nothing :(

Nothing exciting for us, we're battling the bed bugs. We found 2 or 3 live ones yesterday :(. Today we're going into hour 4 of operation destroy our house. MAF went out to get more pest control stuff, bags and other crap. We're gutting each room, scrubing, caulking holes and reapplying the DE. On a good note, the DE is working! We found dead bugs where the DE was! So glad for that!

After we're done with all this for the day, we're going to sit down and celebrate M's birthday LOL, he's 3 today!

Lisa said...

Well, happy birthday to M! And I agree, it's ugly for that guy to make a scene about things, especially when it sounds like you obviously try to stay on top of the situation with M.

Glad to hear that DE is working! I've heard good things about it for years and it's supposed to be good for fleas, too. And look at the bright side...at least your house is going to be really, really clean!

Lisa said...

I was just reading Jennifer's FB and she's definitely having to move, I guess, so it looks like she's going to lose the battle with the landlord. What I'm surprised about are the sheeple just casually saying, "Oh, you should move here!" or, my favorite so far, telling her that San Diego is nice. I'm sure it is, but are they not stopping to think about the fact she can't exactly rent or buy another place now. Three home losses, a bankruptcy *and an eviction filing, even if that doesn't go through? Who wants to touch them now? Their options are pretty damn limited right now, I'd think.

Shannon said...

Ya know I almost really do feel sorry for her. I mean they have dug themselves into such a hole with the decisions that they have made that now they get to sit there and panic...you know like the rest of us do when we make horrible decisions.

Lisa said...

Shannon, I don't think it bothers her all that badly...I know in her place, I couldn't set foot in Target, for example, just knowing that people would recognize me and whisper, yet it doesn't seem to bother her at all. I get the feeling she feels more inconvenienced and victimized than anything.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

And San Diego is expensive too. Not that that would stop *her.
Love MAF ;) does anyone else use that or is it just here?

D Miller31108 said...

Lisa, I will take that slap gladly, lol!

I think JM and Fam should move to Monte Carlo, hey, why not??

Shannon said...

Lisa I think that is part of why I feel sorry for her. She probably doesnt recognize that it is because of their actions that they are now sitting in this position. They were lucky to get this place, they have probably used up all of their luck by now.

Shannon said...

And finally got a minute to watch the sermon for the week and it makes me laugh at him once again.

Does he not realize that Judaism, Islam, and modern Christianity are all based off the same stuff??? It is all from Abraham. They all have their own little twists and changes that makes the differences in their beliefs. Mormonism and Christianity are really no different the Catholicism and Christianity...a few subtle changes that were made centuries after the predecessor to make it fit to another group of people.

Anonymous said...

I love the Golden Corral. And I never go to church :)

Shannon said...

LOL I have never been to the Golden Corral.....and havent been to a church in like 15 years :)

KaytieJ said...

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/susan_nielsen/index.ssf/2012/01/privacy_and_technology_where_g.html

Interesting read on what Google already does and has planned. No wonder they did not want SOPA interfering with it.

Lisa said...

I love Golden Corral, too!
"Mormonism and Christianity are really no different the Catholicism and Christianity..."

They're *all Christians, though. Would a better comparison not be, say, Mormons vs. Baptists or Catholics vs. Mormons? Or am I missing your point? If I'm getting your point, I agree and felt the need to be a bitch and correct that. ;-)

"www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/susan_nielsen/index.ssf/2012/01/privacy_and_technology_where_g.html"

So, this email and all I've been getting from Google about privacy policy changes...is *this basically what it's all about? Good lord. Although I will say we've been monitored online for ages...AOL was notorious for it back when they were the big thing. You could discuss something with friends via email and see ads for related items come up shortly thereafter, remember? Google is just taking it to a new, bigger level, I guess.

Lisa said...

Oh, can someone help me, please? I want to unfollow BWOP but I'm all dumbass-y and can't figure out how. So, how?? I'm not wanting to be associated at *all with whatever is going on there now. Jeeeez, Louise.

Lisa said...

Nevermnind, got it figured out.

kate said...

They were lucky to get this place, they have probably used up all of their luck by now.
Yeah. This is where I feel sorry for her. I'm convinced that MWoPs contacted that landlord and ultimately the eviction is on their heads.

Up until the bankruptcy filing the Mcks spending habits caused their own misery. But having to move now and losing their investments in the farm is on MWoP (that includes the facebook WoPs).

I get the feeling she feels more inconvenienced and victimized than anything.
I'd be leaving the country probably, after having a website dedicated to my shortcomings. But I still think that she is victimized to some extend. She's a desaster with financials with no sense of responsibility, yes. And she does not understand that she's hurting herself the most with this. All the money she's lost on downpayments, car repo balances, etc. could have paid off the either of the first 2 houses by now.

But all those hawks watching over her every move, publishing her every detail are way out of line. I'm really wondering who provided Anja with the landlord's fax BEFORE it became public record.

Jill said...

This gave me a chuckle this morning:
http://www.shoeboxblog.com/?p=29204

Lisa said...

Kate, did I misread the landlord's fax? It was a bit tough to follow, but I read it to say he'd given them a 30 day notice (which he's calling an eviction, but I don't think it really is...I think he just gave them required notice since MWOP never came up with a filed eviction proceeding) and they were to be out by the end of December because he was already feeling scammed. I read it to be that they'd not paid rent up to that date, it was simply a single non-payment for January, which is why he served them with 30 day notice and contacted law enforcement. From there, I read it to be that someone then told him about internet scams. Now, if I'm right, it could well have been law enforcement that investigated his claims of being scammed on the rent and gas, as they should have done, and *they easily would have pulled up info about MWOP and such. Probably passed it on to him, too...he may have been the one who contacted Anja, or maybe he's got a daughter or daughter-in-law who got sucked into the drama at that point, as we have been. I certainly would have contacted Anja, had Steve The Landlord been my dad or father-in-law, you know? Of course, I also could be reading it all wrong and you might be right...and it could be someone from MWOP. I'm thinking not, though, based on how I'm interpreting that fax.

And really, investing in a "farm" you rent on a month to month basis? Is so damn stupid that you sort of deserve to lose your investment, imo.

Lisa said...

Jill, that was cute!

I meant to say, "it was *not simply a single non-payment for January".

Pamala said...

I do think someone contacted him from MWOP but I think he was more being proactive about the bankruptcy than anything. I think he told them he needed them to leave because he was coming back (which is why she said he was on his way back) and they agreed.

Either way it's all messed up.

And to the idiot who suggested california, she can't even afford 550 in rent, she won't find a place in this state for under 1000 that would fit all of her kids.

Shannon said...

"They're *all Christians, though. Would a better comparison not be, say, Mormons vs. Baptists or Catholics vs. Mormons? Or am I missing your point? If I'm getting your point, I agree and felt the need to be a bitch and correct that. ;-)"


Basically them *all being Christians was the point. All the same thing yet if you ask some they will tell you that Mormon's arent Christian, Catholics arent Christian, and there are even other branches of groups that claim to be Christian that others say they are not. How was that for a horrible sentence :)

Basically it is the point that it is all so stupid. Martin got sick of what the Catholics were saying so they changed things up and got the Lutherans/Christians. And then through time we have seen it happen over and over and over again. New churches being born teaching almost the same thing but denouncing other religions as being false.

Ha now we shall see if that makes any sense at all :)

Pamala said...

By the way, anyone believe the "letter" that was posted on MWOP? I have a hard time believing things that really have no way to be backed up.

If it's true frankly I'm sad. Sad for the kids in particular. :(

Lisa said...

I've gotcha now, Shannon...thanks for explaining that, I misunderstood and I agree. :-)

Something I'm wondering about with JM and her landlord: If he's being truthful,and if she's lying about the bedbugs, would he not have an excellent case for libel? I mean, she's talked some shit about him on FB, how he refuses to help and such. If he can prove that to be false, would she not be in a boatload of trouble if he chose to pursue that as defamation?

Pamala said...

I'm not so sure. She never named him by name on her blog, MWOP did that. So I'm not sure he'd have much to go on.

Shannon said...

Pamela are you talking about "the letter" that Roobii posted? I have my own suspicions about if JM and IM are together or not this letter does nothing for me. Hell I could have written that letter yet now it is a confirmation and proof that JM and IM are splitsville.

Personally I dont think that the two of they are divorcing...I really dont know how that would be beneficial to either of them at this point. However I would not doubt for one second that they are not in a happy place, sleeping together, sleeping in the same room. They have 5 kids and legal issues going on right now that I think would prevent them from doing much more then that right now.




Lisa I think that she has dug herself a serious hole with this bedbug situation. I have a feeling that they are moving out because they lost their case against the landlord. From her postings it really didnt sound like it was their choice. And I do wonder if he will pursue any other legal action.

Lisa said...

Hmmm, that's true, Pamala, good point. But she did do it after knowing his name had been put out there as public record *and on MWOP. Not sure if that would make a difference or not, though.

Lisa said...

I don't believe the letter on MWOP, no. Too many reg flags came up when I read it...then again, I've never really believe a lot of what Roobii has said, either. I'm not sure what I hope for in the situation, though...a bad marriage can take an equally bad toll on kids as a divorce, you know? I just feel bad for those kids all the way around.

Shannon, if the case was already lost re: the bedbugs, wouldn't that be showing up in court records?

Chuck Banger said...

Where does a man with five children and a 9 dollar an hour job go when he leaves his wife? Is his mommy still alive?

Shannon said...

Lisa maybe not if it just happened Friday it may not have been entered in yet?

Chuck Banger said...

"I don't believe the letter on MWOP, no. Too many reg flags came up when I read it"

Yes me too, especially this one. "But to come here and see this web page run by a level headed, fact showing person, was a great relief." When I read something like that I assume it was written by the 'level headed' person herself.

Lisa said...

Huh...you know, I don't think Anja would do that. I base that on nothing but a gut feeling, again, but I just don't. She *does seem pretty level-headed.

Shannon, that's true, but isn't there a hearing for the 16th of February already set?

Shannon said...

Im not sure Lisa. There is so much going on with the escrow thing and the bankruptcy thing. I was just thinking that maybe something legally happened on Friday because that was the 'hopeless' day. Then this weekend came the finding a new place to live.

Pamala said...

Yeah something has to be up.

That letter just rubs me the wrong way. There is no way to verify it at all. It's just someone's word for it. And frankly that's annoying. If JM wants to pretend she's still married when she's not that's on her, but that sort of announcement should be hers to make.

It wouldn't surprise me, the kind of legal issues, sick kids, etc can strain any marriage (hell it's what caused my ex husband to start his path of destruction, illness for my daughter), so it wouldn't surprise me but how anyone can believe that post is beyond me?

Anonymous said...

Quick question, I just saw the BWOP facebook page made. I go back to OHIH, but am not ready to out myself just yet. My question is, who was the freak who was posting Tina's crap all over the Internet? Or am I confusing that with the Wendy drama? And how was the freak who used to detest JM, then had a change of heart and did a Lightroom giveaway with her? Ok more like 3 quick questions ;)
Enuffz

Shannon said...

A while back there was a site made to out everyone on Daisy pretty much. Then Wendy made a page to out GM. And apparently it all came about because GM had a change of heart and made up with JM and did the Lightroom thing.

manda said...

Isn't it funny, it's been years and here we are. I don't know why, but reading mckmama and her drama is like a freaking train wreck.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Shannon, the GM was all I needed to remember that train wreck. All I did was click on a prayer button for a sick kid, I cannot believe what transpired since then.
ENuffz

Shannon said...

Well it has proven to be entertaining for sure :)

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Who were the original Mwop forum admins? I think Pink was one but can't remember who else.

Shannon said...

I am not really sure. I didnt go to the forum for a long time because of all the horror stories I had heard. Then I just pretty much stopped going because I was *trying to get away from all the JM dramas LOL

Anonymous said...

Forum members = Leah, Shell, and Pink.
Then Shell got pissy and outed Pink, and it was just her and Leah.
Shell then steps down as admin, and Leah makes Faith and Joni admin.
Shell gets pissy AGAIN and takes the forum away from Leah and makes Cate and Violet Admins.
Then it was given BACK to Leah and they all left, at that point I got the hell out of dodge. I have no idea who runs it now.
Enuffz

kate said...

Now you got me all curious with the letter talk...

The author sounds even more dramatic than JM herself, if that's possible. And isn't it convenient that this 'friend' also pushes for JM to shut down her blog?

What's up with that? What entitles MWoP and the everybody else to determine that 'She needs to close her blog and concentrate on her family'?!

Especially if you consider all the 317 mental issues they've assigned to JM this week alone. The last thing JM should then do is to live without validation from her loving audience and be 'unmonitored' with her kids who MWoP thinks should be out of her reach anyway. Sounds to me like an Andrea Yates bath about to happen...

But I did think of Roobii as somebody with some true insights, to be honest. At least the address was put out by her correctly.
Jury's still out on the seperation and the MWoP alerting the landlord subject.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Thanks Enuffz. I think ;)
I had no idea it got that complicated. My memory was that Pink and Leah started it but I couldn't remember Leah's name. Then Shell came in but "wasn't" an admin but she really was. And about halfway through I was done. Heavy handed craziness imo. From your account it sounds like S was in charge all the way through though.
I didn't think it was still there, but what do I know.

Shannon said...

Kate I have to say that I get a good chuckle when they keep saying she needs to shut down the blog and go get a real job. Do they not understand how much daycare will cost?? I mean it is crazy how much it is to have at least 3 kids in full-time daycare. She had good income coming in from her blog, they helped to take care of that.

Now this doesnt mean that because she has good money coming in she wont just blow it and still be in the same situation...but at least they had money coming in.

kate said...

Lisa,

I agree, the letter is somewhat hard to follow. The landlord is all over the place with dates and facts. Some of which he kept (deliberately?) vague.

He makes it sound as if he lived there until Thanksgiving and the Mcks have potentially not paid rent since then.
Then again he makes it clear that they have not paid January. Why does he not give specifics? If they really never paid rent they'd be 5 months behind, which would have a far greater weight with the court than his whining about the CA address not being used.
Fact is he verified with the gas co. that they never had the gas tank serviced, which might not have been necessary if it hasn't been emptied yet. It WAS a mild winter until recently.
Fact is also that he setd them an eviction notice. I assume that was on Dec. 20, as that was when JM blogged about the bad farm news.

Fact is also that the bankruptcy notice went out on Dec. 16 and that MWoP took note that the landlord's address was the same as the farmhouse.

Roobii indicated that JM has talked about MWoP contacting the landlord.

The points where the landlord is not vague is when he lists the bankruptcy dates & judge, the county health authority and the gas company. He's clearly informed in detail about the bankruptcy. And now, from whatever source, that they're internet scammers.

No way in hell does that info come from law enforcement. Even if LE started investigating the local chap's potential squatters after a call from him, MWoP is not a credible or structured source that could be quoted. And what else is there to find? The foreclosures, the bankruptcy and that's it. Not grounds for eviction.

The investment in a rental make sense to me if that was supposed to be a long term agreement. Nothing worse than ugly paint/wallpaper.

And I think that JM may have been forced to replace the toilets out of pocket and put it on the escrow papers once it was clear that she has effectively renovated the bathrooms for the landlord. But that's just my speculation.

kate said...

Shannon,

Now this doesnt mean that because she has good money coming in she wont just blow it and still be in the same situation...but at least they had money coming in.

::Giggles::

Now if only she could make the connection between that money coming in and the 'chunks of taxes due' that always come her way...

kate said...

String & Enuffz,

some Joni still was forum admin (with Leah) definitely as late as Aug/Sep. I remember that because there was a huge stink with Alex Hilson, the casual observer, over it. Joni came to BWoP to defend the forum from time to time.

Anonymous said...

Damn did you guys see the new post on MWOP? Do you think it is really JM's facebook account? If so how sad that someone she trusts as a friend would do that to her. I can't stand her, but divorce sucks. My parents divorced when I was a kid and it fucked both my brother and me up for a long time.
Kate I do remember Joni coming to BWOP now that you mentioned it. I forgot all about that Alex Hilson. There is just to much to keep straight anymore.
Enuffz

Shannon said...

Enuffz

I just got done reading that. OMG. I cannot believe that someone would do that...OK I guess I can because there are too many on MWOP who are just vicious. But to share that with people she considers friends and to have to be openly ridiculed over that now? Not so cool.

Guess my assumption earlier that I didnt think they had split up has been shown to be incorrect. I dont even want to think about the rough road that is ahead for all of them.

manda said...

That's her account all right. It's hardly shocking news.

manda said...

Shannon, don't you think she would know better by now? If she didn't want it getting out then she never should have posted it on her facebook. Call people, text them, whatever, but if you put something up on the internet you no longer have control over it.

Enuffz said...

It may not be shocking but I still think it is pretty crappy to have put out there like that.

Jill said...

I get that nothing is private on the Internet, but it is really a violation of trust to have screen capped her status update and send it to MWOP.

Shannon said...

Manda I totally get that. She should know by now that there are people, even those she thinks that she can trust, that will throw her under the bus.

It is just more of a thing where I would be very upset if I had say a FB page set up for myself and people I trusted and then have them taking what I said in trust and doing this.

As someone on MWOP said, it may not be legally wrong but what about morally?

manda said...

But isn't the internet full of scammers and liars? I just don't feel sorry for her at all. She has over 200 'friends' on her private facebook. That's sort of a lot of people to trust with such private information, dontcha think? She had to have known it was going to get out.

manda said...

There's no way I trust more than 200 people.

Shannon said...

I couldnt trust that many either Manda but I guess when you have relationships that are like her's maybe you dont think that way?

IDK I think I personally would have felt a lot differently if this had come from her mouth/fingers. I just dont know. To me this is just so much more then a bankruptcy, or eviction, or foreclosure...this is actually "real" for lack of a better term.

I just hope that through it all the two can act like adults and remember that it isnt about them it is about those kids ALWAYS!!!!

manda said...

I will say, though, those poor kids. They've sort of had a rough go of it, haven't they? No real structure, moving all the time, no school or steady playmates besides each other that I've ever noticed, an extremely emotional mother (and that's just my personal opinion) and the list goes on and on.

manda said...

I guess I just think she's sort of slimey, so nothing she does ever really suprises me. I hope those kids get what they need form the parents though. I'd like to think a seperation would be for the better of the whole family, somehow I just doubt that.

Pamala said...

200 friends? Then she would have known that it would get out. And perhaps that's how she intended it to be. Perhaps it's easier to let it come out than for for to just come out and write it.

That's just so very sad.

Shannon said...

manda I have a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that before we know it we are going to start seeing those kids used as weapons. That is the shit that parents do during and after divorce that pisses me off to no end....they are not weapons they are children, they need all the love they can get, not be placed as pawns in the middle.

Shannon said...

"Perhaps it's easier to let it come out than for for to just come out and write it. "

Pamela that may be very very true.

manda said...

I think JM is one of those people who sees her children as positions or as extensions of herself, not as tiny humans with their own feelings. It's clear she doesn't respect them.

Anonymous said...

I'm going to go back and read everyones thoughts after dinner.. but I HAVE to say this...

I really don't think it's right MWOP or Anja posted the screen shots from JM's personal FB. I'm honestly beginning to feel sorry for Jennifer, as much as she did this to herself, I'm imagining just how awful she is feeling. :(

and those poor babies of hers :(

Pamala said...

Yeah you know what it's scary as hell when your spouse leaves and you are a SAHM. I don't give a rats ass who you are, it scares the hell out of you. When it happened to me I only had 2 kids, but imagine 5. She may be a bitch, she may make his life hard, or hell he may be a jerk, who knows. No matter what she is like, it doesn't change the fact that it's probably one of the more scary times in her life.

I think she intentionally let it come out, it's easier than having to say it herself on her blog.

I feel for her children, because it won't be easy. I feel because life is going to dramatically change for them. That's what is most sad.

manda said...

See, but we all face the scary and unknown. We all walk through difficult times. Every single person has a struggle and she gets no sympathy from me whatsoever because she has proven herself an emotional and financial scammer time and time again. So she's got it rough, she's got no one to blame for it but herself. Those kids didn't ask for any of this. Somebody brought it up elsewhere and now I can't get the thought out of my head, The Glass Castle. One of those kids is going to grow up and write a book and that's all I keep thinking about.

Enuffz said...

As a child of divorce there is nothing scarier than having your parents use you as a weapon, or a way to get back at the other. It sucks, and while the younger 2 will probably not have as rough of a time, my heart breaks for the older three. Especially Cullen.

Pamala said...

Yeah I just thank God that my oldest was 3 when our separation started (the oldest not born, she was an opps). So she doesn't know any different right now. Sometimes she asks why I'm not married but other than that it's how life is. I don't use the kids as pawns though and they see their daddy 3 to 4 times a week and we get along well.

I hope they do right by those children. I really do. But if they are forced to go to school or into daycare that will be a huge transition for all of them.

Anonymous said...

We have 3 soon to be 4 kids and I'm a SAHM. I would not have an ever lovin idea what to do if my husband left me :(, the thought alone is scary.

I hope neither of them use the children as pawns, that's the last thing they need, and hopefully this will be a wake up call for Jennifer.

Really it all just makes me sad, sad for the kids and sad for JM & IM as well.

Lisa said...

Crap, I do have a life for a few hours and miss drama. You know, ordinarily I'd agree that what is said on her private FB should stay there, but then I stop and realize she's been quite willing to drag people into her life by way of making them pay her bills, affecting their home values, and basically invading their financial lives without their permission...maybe it's only fair they invade hers right back. I find myself not feeling any sympathy for her over it. And I particularly find myself unsympathetic for her choice of words in saying Israel is leaving *them and *they're devastated...sorry, but we don't know that. We only know he's leaving her and her phrasing there sends a huge message out, imo, that she's one of those women who tells the kids that "daddy is divorcing us".

Pamala, when my husband and I divorced, Jake (my son) went from being homeschooled (more like unschooled) to public school...he was enrolled smack in the middle of the 4th grade year and while it was an adjusted and odd for him, he *loved* it. It was a terrific school for being public, they were experienced in handling homeschoolers and we had a lovely counselor who stressed to me that I needed to be upbeat and positive about this change to Jake. If she handles it well, and I don't have high hopes, going to regular school and daycare could be a big, fun adventure for her kids! But yeah, the cost of daycare? I'm not seeing it happen.

Welcome, Manda. :-)

manda said...

Thanks, I've been 'round these parts before.

kate said...

I still have sympathy for her in this situation. And I'm glad that I do. Being too hardened by dislike to be compassionate in other areas is not anything I aspire to.

Her life is in turmoil, financially and emotionally. And now she has to weather it all on her own. No matter what, that's terrible.

And the facebook screenshot is a betrayal. So what if there are 200 people in that group? Do we now automatically expect that 200 can't be decent at the same time? It would have come out sooner or later anyway. Somebody just had to beat her to it and be the 'insider' for MWoP.
Disgusting.

kate said...

sorry, but we don't know that. We only know he's leaving her and her phrasing there sends a huge message out, imo, that she's one of those women who tells the kids that "daddy is divorcing us".

Yeah, that sounds about right.
(Although we don't know that either. It could be that IM really wants to revert to his bachelor days and figures that he has more cash in hand by selling t-shirts in Hawaii.)

But somehow it'll amount to more drama if she keeps telling herself that "he's abandoning US. With no roof over our heads."

Anyway, it's going to be a spectacle.

Lisa said...

It is, indeed, going to be a spectacle and you're right, he may be leaving them all to sell t-shirts in Hawaii. I hope not; somehow I've always thought slightly better of him than that, but he may well be.

"I still have sympathy for her in this situation. And I'm glad that I do. Being too hardened by dislike to be compassionate in other areas is not anything I aspire to."

You know, it's not that I don't have sympathy although I really don't have much for her. I've got a ton for those kids, though, and until I see a picture of him on Waikiki Beach, I have some for Israel, too. I'm more cynical than hardened, I think, but whatever it is, I'm pretty comfortable with it. :-)

kate said...

While on the soapbox I wasn't taking a dig at anybody. I was really glad to find out that I do feel sympathy.

I'm heavy on the cynical side as well and sometimes it worries me that I might lose touch with humanity. Seriously. So I'm kinda relieved to realize my gut reaction is feeling sorry rather than gleeful or even indifferent.

Pamala said...

I believe that JM and IM are about the same age as myself and my ex and let me tell you he went through a "I don't want to be tied down phase." there were other issues that led to our divorce as well which I don't typically advertise but perhaps IM is so stressed that he's deemed not being with her better for him than being with her.

Pamala said...

Oh by the way not feeling sorry isn't a bad thing. What bothers me is those that celebrate and seem giddy at the news. Like they are taking joy in her pain. That doesn't feel right at all.

Chuck Banger said...

I feel bad for the kids, not their idiot parents, and she has some nerve asking people to come help her move her bedbugs.

Anonymous said...

@Pamala,
I think that is part of the yucky, bad feeling I have for the whole situation, the fact that there are so many out there who are so glad to see/hear all the bad things happening to her now.

Shannon said...

I think that is really it....knowing how many are truly happy about the whole thing. I am not surprised at all and really thought that it was going to happen sooner.

I really have a hard time thinking ill of Izzy though, I really do. We only know of him what she lets be told. I cannot imagine living that way. I do sincerely hope that he stays active with his kids.

And really the new speculation of "maybe he is leaving to work somewhere else" kinda ticks me off too because if the post she made is going to be believed then you have to believe all the words. Saying he 'no longer wants to be involved with their family' really doesnt say it is an extended work trip he is taking.

And her saying it like he is leaving all of them gets me too. He doesnt want to be with YOU anymore dont extend that to the kids.

Shannon said...

Please pardon me but I am going to say it here since ya know I was after all banned from commenting on MWOP when I didnt like they trying to zoom in on a pic to see if it was C's junk or the pattern on his shorts. But I swear to Bob if I dont get it out I might explain.

See one of the "woman" is all defending their actions over there basically saying 'I am sure this site has had sooo much to do with her marriage failing'......I want to say this to her:

Yeah but I am sure that all the BS that people on this site claim to do hasnt caused any stress or strain on their marriage either. You have wanted to see her fail, go to jail, lose everything including her children. Well congratulations you have gotten part of your wish. Maybe next we will hear about how her and the kids are living in the car.

The venom with which so many of you literally hate this woman is just mind boggling.

She needs to get a job. Well she had a pretty lucrative job but you didnt like that one. She needs to be xyz mom instead of abc because that is what works better for YOU. I just dont get it. Some of you are so freaking ecstatic about the news of them separating and yet STILL you want her to shut her blog down, and exactly how is she supposed to take care of her FIVE children then? Dont claim to give a crap about the kids when you want nothing more then to see her mother crash and burn, literally.

I used to be a poster here but really it got so far over the top that I just couldnt stomach a lot of the feeling here anymore. You talk like you are such a good wonderful group.....you are until someone disagrees with you or tries to be a voice of reason then you tear them to shreds.

May each of you reap the wishes you have placed upon this woman ten fold, as that is what you deserve.

Lisa said...

Kate, I didn't read it as a dig, just as it being how you felt.

Shannon, you're right, no matter what she does, someone is not going to be happy. It's not going to be good enough. And I agree, too, about feeling very uncomfortable with the delight some seem to feel about this happening. I don't necessarily *care, but I'm not all excited and happy, either. It's just pathetic.

Shannon said...

It is just that whole hypocritical thing all over again. Ya know like BWOP wants to call out MWOP for being bullies, but they are just as bad anymore as MWOP has ever been. And MWOP calls JM out for all of her transgressions, real or imagined. Yet while they want her to stand up and be accountable, they take no accountability for themselves. It is just sickening.

Lisa said...

What are we, here? Just all holier than thou and above it all? I sort of like that idea. :-D

Shannon said...

Yes Lisa we are!!!! HAHAHAHA

KaytieJ said...

We're sniffing Daisies in our half slips and sportin' suntan Lleggs scarves :-)

StringOfRandomLetters said...

"...sportin' suntan Lleggs scarves ..."
Don't you mean hatscarves? You must get extra credit toward your 4.0 for getting that spelling right. I'd totally forgotten :)

And I'm thinking of selling t-shirts on the beach now too. Packing up my holey Lleggs and my holier-than-thou attitude right now!

Pamala said...

I'm reading up on MWOP and I'm a bit surprised by the lack of rational thinking going on there. People think she should shut down her blog but I wonder how the hell she's supposed to support a family of six now with very little child support I imagine, without the income from her blog.

If people would just leave her the hell alone, even if she's a liar, and just let the fools be fooled (it's their fault after all isnt' it) and let her do her photography, then she could provide quite nicely for her family.

I swear the more I read the more I come to the conclusion that they want her to be living in her car without her children.

She may be a morally corrupt person when it comes to financial matters but damnit, why is the goal to have her on the street without her kids?

She doesn't seem like a bad mother. She doesn't post remotely enough to actually be "neglecting" her children. She doesn't seem to abuse them. They seem happy.

That's my vent today. Sure JM pisses me off sometimes, but the last thing I want for her is to lose her kids and to be homeless. Frankly if she can make a shit load of money off her site, I think she has every right to do so.

Jill said...

"That's my vent today. Sure JM pisses me off sometimes, but the last thing I want for her is to lose her kids and to be homeless. Frankly if she can make a shit load of money off her site, I think she has every right to do so. "

Yes, I agree.

And I think we are becoming the blogging equivalent of this guy: http://youtu.be/kHmvkRoEowc

Anonymous said...

Pamala;
I agree she has a right to make money. I don't agree that she has a right to lie, cheat the government, and refuse to pay her bills.
I don't want her to be homeless or hopeless either, but the best way to turn things around? Start telling the truth, and pay people what you owe them.
-an old friend.

Pamala said...

Sure she should pay her debts, who knows why she doesn't. But I think she should also be able to continue to make money on her blog.

manda said...

She had a chance to make a shit load of money off her site and she blew it for plagiarizing. That's on her. She also managed to squander all that money she made so now she's at the point of filing bankruptcy, again nobody twisted her arm there. She baits people, that can't be denied, and I'm not sure why. Does she really get off on the attention? I don't know. I'm not jumping for joy, I'm not giddy her husband left her. I don't feel sorry for her, that's all. Deal with it, and if you can't deal with all these people you've managed to piss off over the last several years then stop blogging. She could make money doing her online photography classes, I'm positive she has enough supporters to continue doing that and to just stop blogging about her family life.

Lisa said...

String, you and Kaytie are going to be hot stuff out there on that beach. *nods*

Pamala, I have to disagree with you about her seeming like a bad mother, at least to a degree. When you factor in the amount of time she has to keep that damn phone in her hand to monitor her blog and FB, deleting, spinning tales in her head, thinking of how to cover her lies, deleting some more, it's way too much for a mom of 5 small children to be distracted. I say this because, in a different way, I *was that mom. My ex-husband and I had a couple of businessed that ran 24/7/365, him away from home for weeks at a stretch and me in charge of the office and employees. I homeschooled my son because, in large part, I don't like our public school system, but also because there was no way we could operate on a standard school time frame and that ruled out private school. It's easy for me to say "Oh, I homeschooled him" like it's something special I did and "I used to play Legos all the time and we'd go for long walks in the woods every day", which we did. But I *always* had two phones with me and was often on one. That wasn't good parenting, you know? It was being-present parenting, at best...piss-poor parenting. I did what I *had to do and it looked good on the surface but more often than not, I was aggravated at having to stop something I was doing for work to tend to him. It's not a pretty thing to admit, I'm not a bit proud of it, but it's the truth and I can about guarantee she's doing and feeling the exact same thing. At least he had my mom to pick up my slack on a daily basis and act like a real mom should...her kids don't even have that.

Lisa said...

Lol, I love Chris Crocker.

Another thing, too...no *good parent makes the kind of money she was making and not only squanders it all without properly providing for her kids, but is left bankrupt and close-to-homeless. Can anyone really dispute that this is bad, bad parenting?

Pamala said...

On a side note though I do think IM left the family as a whole. I think he just gave up and left. It's easier to run away than deal with all the troubles. And he strikes me as someone who would do that.

Lisa said...

Pamala, he may have...or not. This one is totally up for grabs in my mind and I think it could go either way. Any number of ways, actually. I also think it's possible, as some have said on MWOP, that he's not really left at all and this is all a big ol' lie.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

AHEM. Writing from under my Llegs, on the beach at Waikiki. My hubs left US, meaning me and the crickets. I had no choice but to hightail it to somewhere warm where I can sleep in the fresh air, picking pineapples for sustenance.

kate said...

:: Standing ovations to EVERYTHING Shannon said ::

@ Chuck Banger,
"she has some nerve asking people to come help her move her bedbugs."
Thanks, that made me actually laught out loud!

@ Anon,
"I don't agree that she has a right to lie, cheat the government, and refuse to pay her bills. "
I disagree. She has totally the right to lie or not pay her bills. The latter leads to bankruptcy, bad credit and potential poverty, but it's her fricking right to do so.

Pamela,

"I think he just gave up and left. It's easier to run away than deal with all the troubles."
Yeah, I tend to suspect that as well. Those debts were not accumulated by JM alone. They both seem to be big fans of the good life with no concept of budgeting whatsoever.
It appears as if the eviction was the final straw for him to get the hell out of dodge.

JM was probably not lying when blogging about her constant eggs, yogurt and potatoes. Whereas before they were constantly eating out or having take out. (Let's face it, JM is not a passionate chef.)
So now he had to live in a non-luxury home, work 12-hour shifts and no lavish meals to look forward to.

If he had a 'normal' sense of responsibility he'd have stuck out for 3 more months to get the eviction/bedbug/bankruptcy desasters savely out of the way.
Meanwhile they'd have had ample time to search for separate places and prepare the kids for the changes to come.

Also, is it a coincidence that he's just started a better (paying) job?

The timing of their separation simply bugs me. I think that right now his family needs him the most and he should have sucked it up until they were in the clear. Move into a separate bedroom if need be, but keep it together for a little while longer.

@ String,

If you run into IM please let us know asap.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Ha. Let's hope not :O

p.s. they have jumped the shark over at bullies ;)

Anonymous said...

I got nothing on the JM debacle today.

All I've got is the best news I've heard all year!

My dad has been missing since late Nov- Not seen from, heard of.. nothing. Mind you, he's an alcoholic, homeless and wasn't doing so hot medically.

Today I finally made contact with a Reverend who told me he is okay! and in rehab to boot! He's been in rehab since early December after a nasty hospital stay. But I'm just glad he's alive, he's safe and sober! (I could literally shout from my roof top right now)

Back to Jm thinking after dinner!

Shannon said...

Mama P that is excellent news!!!! I couldnt even imagine that kind of not knowing. I am sure you had probably already resolved yourself to the worse case scenario so this must really have been such a load off. Even when the ones we love are in a bad way we still want to know what is happening with them. This is just wonderful to know that he is alive, OK, and in rehab. Very very happy for you.

Lisa said...

Mama P, that's such good news and I'm so happy and relieved for you! Here's to hoping he stays sober...wait, I guess we shouldn't toast to that, should we? Well, I hope he does stay sober and gets his life and health back in order. It sounds like he's got a fighting chance now. :-)

Y'all know I'm not necessarily disagreeing about Israel...we just don't know. But part of me wonders if he manned up, finally, and decided to take the reins of his family back and she rebelled, expecting to walk all over him like she usually does. If he was determined enough to stand his ground, he may have left without her and the kids figuring on letting her get a real taste of life without him, as a single mom, and maybe she'd appreciate and respect him more. And it's not like he could just take the kids with him when he went...all she has to do is threaten to call the cops and say he hit her again or whatever and he's bent-over screwed, so he may have had no choice but to leave without the kids. Again, who knows the truth but this sure seems to me to be a likely scenario, too.

I wonder if String and Kaytie could enlist Dog and Beth to help us find out where Israel is and what's going on?

KaytieJ said...

Very good news, Mama P. I hope your father does well in Rehab and recovery.

New thought to me. I will need to think on the concept that someone has the Right to not pay their bills and go into bankruptcy. I have always viewed that as a choice of free will or conditionally, as in losing ones job or encountering catastrophic event(s).

Hmmm... I'm pulling up my lawn chair, readjusting my beer can in my tube top
(handy little things, these tube tops) and contemplating Rights.

Lisa said...

I'm gonna sneak up and yank that tube top down. :-D

I was reading BWOP and why did Tina say the BWOP FB page was down when it's not? Did she think no one would check? She confuses me.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Collecting BIG$$$ from y'all to finance my trip to the Big Island :D

When did she say that, Lisa? Or did you mean what "not Lauren" said? :))

Enuffz said...

Lisa I think when she reported it it disappeared off her profile so she thinks it is gone. To bad anyone who searches for it can still see it, guess Facebook wasn't as eager to jump on the bandwagon of deleting a page that was supposedly "impersonating" a person as she claimed. LOL oops.

Anonymous said...

What's hard to grasp for me, I don't understand anyone just not paying your bills. I understand having to budget and maybe getting behind, but to just flat out not pay? Nerve racking to think about!

and Thank you guys! It is a relief knowing he is safe. I've been preparing myself for the worst, but didn't realize how worried I was until I burst into tears when I heard he was okay! We can toast to him being in rehab Lisa, LOL we can handle our alcohol.

and I can't find this FB page you guys speak of LOL, but then again I also haven't been able to find any of MWOP'S fb pages either!

Lisa said...

String, in one of her comments about contacting FB, she says it's gone after talking to them. 'Tain't, though. Enuffz, maybe FB just misunderstood.

And can I say I think I need to take a JM break? She's on my very. last. fucking. nerve with how she spoke about Israel and the comments she's allowing to stand about him. The stupid bitch needs to realize someday her kids may see those and I don't give a *damn what happened, he is still their father and they are still half him. I guess maybe this part is hitting a little too close to home for me. And then the whole Jesus stuff being tossed out coupled with seeing a woman I know to be smart and who I respect over there passing the hug basket to Jennifer and my patience is just fucking shot with it all.

Lisa said...

Mama P, tonight's a drinkin' night, only you're pregnant so you have to wait unless you're a bit of a rebel. ;-) Search on FB for "bullieswith" and it popped right up for me before I could type anything else.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

:Head:Desk: I have to learn to read for content. I thought you were saying bullies was down, not the fb.
Hil-freakin-larious that it's still there :)

Anyone watch Dance Moms on LT? Now dat's funny. In an awful train wreck kind of way.

Anonymous said...

Bah humbug, FB just doesn't like me LOL I don't see anything.

I haven't watched Dance moms, but I've seen previews. It's like that show, Toddlers & Tiara's or w/e it's called. I loathe the show but it's a train wreck and sometimes I can't look away!

Tonight I'm watching Hardcore Pawn, I love this show lol, it's a train wreck also.

Anonymous said...

The speculation of some on MWOP is a bit more amusing than anything, someone suggested that IM is in the pond with a brick tied to his feet 0_0 crazy crazy

kate said...

It's drinking night? Nobody told me!

Tempi,

I'm so glad to hear about your happy news. Being prepared for the worst & then hearing about him being better than before is just what you deserve after the bedbug crap you were going through!

Lisa,

I'm keeping my JM reading to an absolute minimum as well. No MWoP & BWoP only when comments explode. Unless something is mentioned here I keep my distance.
You could always rev up the pastor Steve postings, of course. Nice counterbalance.

And I've filed your scenario of IM's motivations under 'best case'.

Shannon said...

I have decided that with JM right now I am frustrated. I am mad at both of them. I really am very concerned for those kids at this point.

I sincerely hope that if things progress further with them going into divorce proceedings that if he wants them he gets them.

Sorry I am just really rather pissy with the universe and her victim crap after all she has done to that man over the years...including emasculating him and having him put in jail I truly cannot blame him if current events were just the last straw.

Anonymous said...

@Shannon, as much as I felt myself feeling sorry for JM, but then the subsequent tweets she sent out made me less feeling sorry and more just annoyed. I don't understand asking for privacy but then tweeting/fbing all day.

I have stepped back from my blog/twitter because there isn't enough time for homework/kids/house/kids/husband/ etc. I would rather spend time with my family/kids and if that means I don't blog or tweet for days (weeks) on end so be it. She has 5 kids, where does the time come from? I only have 3 and can barely fit time in for a shower let alone online time.

Pamala said...

I went back and looked over my blog just to see what I posted about when I was going through my separation and divorce. I did write a little bit about my anger and that my ex had decided he wasn't into being responsible anymore. But the big stuff, you know where I got real pissy with him and called names and detailed what really happened, I password protected. 1. I didn't want potential employers for him to find out what happened and 2. I didn't feel it was my place to advertise his problems on my blog. The mental illness he had always been open about and posted about himself on his own blog, so he was okay with that, but the additional stuff, that's never been put out there. I think it's okay to post about how you're feeling, struggling, angry, but allowing people to attack IM? No. Sorry but this guy, hopefully will come around and want to be in the children's life, and you have to learn to coparent with them. But I guess this might be fresh so that's why. Who knows.

Lisa said...

What kills me is that we don't even *know he doesn't want to be a part of the kids' lives. When a marriage breaks up, someone has to leave and the man may as well be the one to volunteer since he's typically the one a judge would order to go when the children are very young, if it came to a legal decision having to be made.

Lisa said...

Pamala, I agree with what you said up there...it *is okay to blog how you're feeling, but that can be done without making the other person out to be to blame or appear evil. It sounds like y'all handled things well, considering what was happening. If blogging had been around when I was going through the divorce, I'd have blogged about it but always, *always with the idea in mind that my son or his friends could read it some day. She needs to remember this.

kate said...

"When a marriage breaks up, someone has to leave "
Sure, the only question remains if it makes sense or is the responsible thing to do RIGHT NOW.
That's a luxury for childless couples who have no marital debt to discharge within the next few weeks.

Nobody's expecting him to stay if his mind's made up that the marriage is unsalvagable. But for the wellbeing of his kids he should ensure that
- the bankruptcy is cleared so that a splitting of assets is possible
- theu have a home
- they have parasite-free furniture

If those bedbugs are real I think that they totally should have fought the landlord for an exterminator.
Like I said before, a few more weeks would have allowed them to have the bankruptcy out of the way, get rid of the bugs, search for and prepare new living spaces and break it to the kids what is about to happen.

The last part is a major issue in my book.

Jill said...

Did they file chapter 7 or 13?

Shannon said...

Jill they filed Chapter 7

Jill said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Nope Jill: Chapter 7 absolves you of debt. Except student loans, but those aren't listed on their forms. Chapter 13 requires you to pay things down.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Shocking I tell you, just shocking. I think they got 115 year old women writing over at bullies ;) cuz I never hear anyone talking like that IRL.

kate said...

"Over at bullies" has a nice ring to it...

StringOfRandomLetters said...

It does, doesn't it :)

Lisa said...

"Sure, the only question remains if it makes sense or is the responsible thing to do RIGHT NOW."

Agreed, and like you, in theory, I wish they'd waited even though it ought not affect the bankruptcy. I suppose, though, if they needed to rent places to live, it might be easier before a discharged bankruptcy is on your credit. Not sure.

A friend said today she thought maybe Israel had not known how far in debt they really were and when he found out via the bankruptcy papers, it was the straw that broke the camel's back and he just couldn't stand to be around her any longer. I'll take that a step further and wonder if he also had no real idea how much her blog actually brought in, which would explain her not mentioning a lot of that in the papers. Now that MWOP is all over the case she's realizing the bankruptcy has to be amended and so she had to come clean on that, too. I can see how that could cause someone to feel like the trust within a marriage was so broken, to feel so angry, that they had to get away.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Did you see the comments re his final tweets? "I'm done" and something like "this is who I am", from November. In retrospect, it is interesting.

Lisa said...

Lol, there's a genre of people online...that somewhat histrionic, somewhat privileged, middle-aged grandmotherly sort...that BWOP appeals to and it's good for them that it's there.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Well. Ahem. and all that.

Shocking, I tell you, just shocking.

Lisa said...

String, I did see that on MWOP and thought it was interesting but didn't give it much weight. He just didn't strike me as being so technologically advanced as to be the sort to leave his wife via tweet or text, you know? could sure be wrong, though...maybe he thought that's the only way she'd listen.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

True that. My guess is he would be happy to communicate briefly that way if she didn't tell him the whole world was watching.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Oh, and Shocking, I tell you, just shocking :)

kate said...

String & Lisa,

Nah, I remember that tweet, thanks to MWoP's love for endless repetitions...
There are 2 tweets from JM in replay, something like "Ok, we'll come pick you up then" and "Using Twitter instead of text AGAIN". They had a field day with the last one at MWoP.

Lisa,

As to IM being in the dark about financials, can't be true except to a very small degree.
Those debts are pretty much just the BEcker house, his car repo, his taxes (that he had an accountant for) and the medical from last summer.
If he was clueless about any of this he won't make it on his own at all. He'll need a conservator or something managing his life in the future.

Maybe the amount of health care was unknown, but those bills are (almost) all in his name, so he must have been aware they had no insurance. If he still didn't put his foot down & drive madam to the hospital instead of calling an ambulance whenever she felt discomfort... well, again, good luck being on his own then.

Also, I'm not sure that the bankruptcy will have to be amended.

Btw: Nobody finds JM's indication that there's somebody else loving him interesting?

Pamala said...

To be honest I just think he's worn out. I think they got married and had children, too many, way too fast and he burned out early. And as she's said in the past she can be downright mean to him. I think she does tend to focus more on herself and perhaps he was neglected emotionally. I imagine they've been in counseling since the DV and he wasn't seeing any change. And then add the addition of the bankruptcy (and her lack of stopping the spending) and then also an eviction, to be honest I could see him just saying fuck it and leaving. And it wouldn't surprise me if that happened. With most marriages when it ends it's because both had issues that were hard to deal with and weren't dealt with properly. And although she's probably angry at him I think she's acknowledged her wrong doings in the marriage. What I don't think she's acknowledged is her lack of change to save the marriage. He did chose to leave, and she has every right to be angry about that. And in time I hope she recognizes what she did to contribute to the mess. But right now, when it's fresh I don't expect much except for anger.

On a side note, I find it hilarious all the married women at MWOP telling JM how she should do things as if they'd have any damn idea what they'd do if they suddenly were left without their husbands. It's one thing to state what you did during your own divorce, it's a whole other thing to say what you would do if you were divorced. Hypotheticals are often vastly different than reality.

Pamala said...

Let me tell you this though, I think MWOP has hit an all time low. It's actually quite disturbing.

kate said...

Pamala,

"It's one thing to state what you did during your own divorce, it's a whole other thing to say what you would do if you were divorced."

I'm guilty of that too, I guess, as I said IM should make a more planned & strategic exit. That's really just my opinion and what bugs me about the situation. As being told by JM, of course.

Kudos for being able to read MWoP at all. I tried yesterday & got ticked off almost immediately. First Anja's privacy post really didn't sit well with me. And when I reached the whole outpour for IM and that army widow I had to give up reading.

kate said...

General questions to everybody who thinks that IM is the better of those two:
- where does that impression/believe come from? I'm genuinely curious, as I've really only followed that drama for a year and during that time he sure didn't do anything impressive
- why is JM's statement that she was the physical abusive one and IM simply took the fall taken for granted when everything else from her is considered a lie?
Again, I simply don't get it.

Shannon said...

Kate this is just for me of course but here it is:

IM has been the home caretaker for those kids a lot. Granted it started because she was in the hospital with Stellan through his multiple hospital stays, but it didnt change much after Stellan was "cured". She has gone to Africa several times, gone half way around the country for photo shoots, and such stuff. I just see him as being the more present parent. He has just in my mind been the stability.

And I dont necessarily take it for granted with the DV stuff. I look at what she has said and her behavior. She seems like a very very controlling person, her way or no way kind of thing. From her blog IM was done having kids when SF came along but JM wanted more, and she got pregnant with Stellan. I could see that as being an open door to some serious fighting and I could absolutely see her be the type to use the police to teach him a lesson. She was pregnant, he is a man, she tells the cops he hit her, they are going to believe her...even if it didnt happen that way.

Lisa said...

"As to IM being in the dark about financials, can't be true except to a very small degree.
Those debts are pretty much just the BEcker house, his car repo, his taxes (that he had an accountant for) and the medical from last summer."

I'll still possibly disagree...if she was handling the bills, and I use that term loosely, he might not have known until each even was too far gone to fix. S0, yes, he had to have known about them but maybe not until after the fact, you know?

"If he was clueless about any of this he won't make it on his own at all. He'll need a conservator or something managing his life in the future."

Again, I'm going to disagree. I'll tell you why a bit down when I answer another of your questions, but he may be just fine.

"so he must have been aware they had no insurance. If he still didn't put his foot down & drive madam to the hospital instead of calling an ambulance whenever she felt discomfort..."

Or did she call the ambulances? Did she refuse to get in the car with him because she wanted the attention and drama from an ambulance staff? We don't know, but you have to admit it's quite possible, no?

"Btw: Nobody finds JM's indication that there's somebody else loving him interesting?"

Well, I would have, had I not missed that. I think it's entirely possible, yes.

Lisa said...

"- where does that impression/believe come from?"

Frankly, I see a world of me in Israel, at least the me I was when I was married to Jake's father. Jennifer reminds me sooooo much of him, I can't tell you. Not the religious stuff, but her need to be in control, her need to flit here and there, big dreams and over-spending like hell to fund them. With my ex-husband, it was all about image and doing whatever it took to put on a show that he was a big shot, lots of money, living the American dream. Fancy house, nice cars, pretty house, pretty family and him in control of the lot of it. And, as with what I've seen from JM, he wasn't willing to *maintain any of it...he wanted to acquire and then shelve it until it was of some use to him and that applied to people, to us, too. it's not that he's a bad man, he isn't. He's a good man but fiercely insecure and battles mental illness (semi-diagnosed bi-polar disorder, long dull story) and depression. His temper is ugly, though...so very ugly...when you buck him on something. While we were married, though, my behavior was very much like I've seen in bits and pieces of Israel. It makes me realize that it's easy for even a very strong minded person to get themselves into a situation like that and you just lose all hope and become compliant because it's easier and because you've taken a vow of "for better or worse", so you stay. At least until you just cannot deal with it any more and something has to give. You know, they're strangers to me but I don't know in that one video when she tells him she's pregnant with Lachlan. I didn't see anger, which would be most expected from a truly abusive man who didn't want another child...I saw defeat and hopelessness. I knew then he's not got an anger problem and he's not typically abusive. Couple that with how naturally sweet he is with the kids and yeah, I think he's a world better than she is.


"- why is JM's statement that she was the physical abusive one and IM simply took the fall taken for granted when everything else from her is considered a lie?"

Oh, I think he lashed out verbally. I think he snapped and got very ugly, which can happen when you've got a whole lot of misery in you you keep squelched back for too long. I think he might have touched her in anger, too, a shove or a slap. I never did because I knew he'd kill me but Israel didn't have that fear, I don't think, so he may well have been pushed that far. And you know what? Sometimes, a shove or slap is understandable. I also think she may well have touched him first and he came back at her, but didn't tell the cops that part after she called them because it would have been rather asshole-ish to have his pregnant wife jailed and if they both went, the kids would have to be taken, too. Holy run-on sentence and long comment, but I hope that explains it better, Kate.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Kate,
yes, she tweeted him back, but could that not have been to cover her own story? Back then I took it as what it looked like - she was going going to pick him up, he was done at work. But looking back, it is possible to question it.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Did they ever send S in an ambulance with his heart issue, besides the fixed wing aircraft, of course?

If not, puts a slightly different light on *her ambulance rides, to me. Her in pain=ambulance, S's *heart=drive him from third ring burb to the "big city"?

Shannon said...

I dont know String....I think they just drove him in though.

StringOfRandomLetters said...

I think so too Shannon. So her pain ranks above her baby's heart condition is the way that appears to me.
*if they just drove him.

Shannon said...

Well *duhhhhh

He is the most blessed baby and most favored by God.....However no one can fathom her pain as it is the worse pain ever felt in all of humanity.


Plus people die from kidney stones everyday...Stellan just had a heart issue.

kate said...

Shannon & Lisa,

Thanks for the interesting replies.
I missed the parts where he was actually doing these things. Last year it only looked as if he was doing the stay at home part because his business had folded anyway and she had turned into the breadwinner. So more of a forced involvement than a calling. And I never really bothered to watching her videos.

But what you described is understandable.
Especially:
"From her blog IM was done having kids when SF came along but JM wanted more, and she got pregnant with Stellan. I could see that as being an open door to some serious fighting"
Amen to that.

Lisa,

Thanks for sharing that background 'expertise'. Very different from my own experiences, so that's not a point of view I'd easily come up with on my own.
It's kinda hard to imagine you as being too resigned to put up a fight against 'being shelved until being of use'. Ugh. Makes me feel for you even though I assume you've made your peace with it by now.

"And you know what? Sometimes, a shove or slap is understandable." Yeah, I'm not for it but I also think that 'battery' and 'abuse' are being used too easily these days.

"Or did she call the ambulances? Did she refuse to get in the car with him because she wanted the attention and drama from an ambulance staff? We don't know, but you have to admit it's quite possible, no?"
Hell, yeah. I'd say it's bloody likely. (This is where my 'expertise' comes in.)
Still doesn't absolve him from the fact that he must have understood that these are going to be extra expenses coming their way.
Not disagreeing about him being too ground down to prevent any of those dramatic actions she does. My argument was only about him being unaware of the extend of their debts.
His name/signature is on most if not all papers. So "he might not have known until each even was too far gone to fix" is something I can't accept even from the most compliant person in the world once they start reposessing cars, boats, houses.
Apparently he's blogged about considering bankruptcy in early 2010. So you're saying he's been putting his head in the sand for years, continued to let her handle all finances by herself, put his name down for billing and was shocked into actioning only by the grand total?
Hm. I'm not sure that I see him snapping out of such an apathy.
I understand that you took control over your life and handled the finances responsibly on your own, but may I ask if you had a similar situation financially as well? Were you aware that businesses were going under, debt was accumulated and you just didn't interfere because your husband wanted to be the man in control? (If that's too personal, please skip the answer. I find this comparison very interesting, don't mean to pry.)

Shannon said...

^^^^
OK yeah that was snarkfull.

kate said...

Lisa,


"Well, I would have, had I not missed that. I think it's entirely possible, yes."
So did I. Rule of thumb from what I've seen: Women leave a marriage because they've had enough. Men leave a marriage because they found someone better.

Doesn't mean that women might not leave with another man, but usually the reason is they can't stay in their marriage anymore. And men will stick around in an unbearable marriage until they find a stepping stone to finally leave. Often it's one they've recently impregnated.

@ String,
I find tweet theory somewhat unlikely. Why not leave her a 'Dear John' then? Why battle modern technology for this?

@ Shannon,

Plus people die from kidney stones everyday...Stellan just had a heart issue.
That's one of the most common causes of death in 30-ish y/o, right? They're dropping like flies...

StringOfRandomLetters said...

Kate,
Just considering that theory, not committed to it. But then again, why *not post it on *her turf? A nice l'il parting dig at her obsession.

Lisa said...

"Thanks for sharing that background 'expertise'."

That's a nice word for it. ;-) You know, I don't mind talking about parts of it because I've discovered *from talking about it that it's not all that uncommon for a strong, independent woman to find herself in the middle of. Most won't admit it, though, out of embarrassment for having let themselves get there. They (we) think they're alone and try to hide it. They aren't alone; it can happen to the strongest. Not that I'm saying Israel was a strong person...I have no clue. He might have had a domineering mother and this was his comfort level for a long time.

"It's kinda hard to imagine you as being too resigned to put up a fight against 'being shelved until being of use'. Ugh. Makes me feel for you even though I assume you've made your peace with it by now"

Oh, hell, *yes. I'd not change a bit of it now...it was a good comeuppance for me and my arrogant, know-it-all attitude. ;-) And seriously, it was. It's weird for me to look back on, too, like looking back into someone else's life and that's how I felt living it...like I was living someone else's life. The longer I stayed, and I stayed almost 10 years, the deeper I got into it and the more impossible it seemed to get out. It was the perfect storm of enabling, abuse and denial.

"My argument was only about him being unaware of the extend of their debts.
His name/signature is on most if not all papers."

Agreed...he knew, deep down, about most even if he didn't really grasp the actual amounts. Well, maybe not the credit cards and believe me, names can be forged, and I still think he may not have known how much she was really making until recently but he wasn't totally clueless, I agree.

"So "he might not have known until each even was too far gone to fix" is something I can't accept even from the most compliant person in the world once they start reposessing cars, boats, houses."

Oh, I can, if a person feels helpless enough and the other person is reassuring them it won't happen again. Denial can be a very safe place to live when you reach a certain point.

"So you're saying he's been putting his head in the sand for years, continued to let her handle all finances by herself, put his name down for billing and was shocked into actioning only by the grand total?"

That and finally facing homelessness, possibly coupled with some attention and care from someone else. Yep. For the record, and I'm very honest about this but also not even a tiny bit proud of it, I had an affair and she was what finally caused me to see I did have value, still, and deserved better. It didn't last with her and I'm still ashamed I cheated on him, but I'll always be grateful to her for giving me *me back.

"(If that's too personal, please skip the answer. I find this comparison very interesting, don't mean to pry.)"

It's not too personal...I'm the one putting my past garbage out there, after all. :-) I'd cleaned up a couple of financial messes a few years prior, but at the time I decided to leave him, the businesses were in okay shape. They'd been better, they'd been worse but were in no way about to go under. I was lucky to have, many years back, put money aside and my dad insisted it be kept in his name. I don't think he ever counted on this all happening...moreso, he didn't trust me to not revert back to my spendthrift ways of the past. My husband never knew about that money; my dad and I invested it way before I was married, played the market with it and made some solid investments we let just sit...and it was enough to pay cash for this this beat-up old place we live in and help me be a single, SAHM even now that Jake is grown. So, I'm different to Israel in that regard, definitely. Were it not for my dad, I'm not so sure I'd be very different at all.

kate said...

Thank you, Lisa.

I'm glad you have a positive spin on what you've been through.
But this: I did have value, still, and deserved better makes want to reach out and hug your old you. And I'm the one stiffening up whenever relatives try to embrace me.
It's horrifying to me that a human being can be made to feel that way.

Again, thanks. I get now where the defense for IM comes from. I've simply assumed they must be two (incompatible) peas in a pod when it comes to avoiding 'hard' work while living the best life possible.
I will give IM the benefit of the doubt for now and see him as you described.

Oopsie Daisy said...

** new post up! **

If you don't mind, just carry any residual comment from this one over there. Thanks!

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